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Old 10-18-2007, 01:47 PM
 
16,579 posts, read 20,628,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrex62 View Post
That is what this thread is all about. Forget Santa, I will take crosses, menorahs, prayer rugs, golden calves, stone circles, anything.
Go ahead and set them all up--but do it on private property. Why do you need or want the government to help you out?
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Old 10-18-2007, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,170 posts, read 24,253,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeDog View Post
There is no Buddist god. And hindus have more than one god. This is a clear endorsement of one particular theological view (monotheism) over others (polytheism, atheism). It has been ruled constitutional on dubious historical precent reasons not b/c it doesn't violate the 1st amendment. In any event, "In god we trust" doesn't offend me, it amuses me. To me it is like "in unicorn we trust". Laughable.
So who do you trust, Jake? Congress?

Speaking of laughable.
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Old 10-18-2007, 01:48 PM
 
8,425 posts, read 12,134,047 times
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How can the government stop me from calling myself "Mr. Brain Surgeon" when there is freedom of speech? How can we have 'anti-gang loitering ' laws when there is a constitutional right to assemble? How is wearing a message t-shirt speech? It would be cruel and unusual punishment for me to be arrested at all, so how could this happen in America?

Well, there is a thing called constitutional interpretation. You can't apply the constitutional literally so judges must interpret it. If you disagree with the judges, you call them 'liberal activists'.
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Old 10-18-2007, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,170 posts, read 24,253,889 times
Reputation: 15285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlow View Post
Go ahead and set them all up--but do it on private property. Why do you need or want the government to help you out?
I can't speak for others, but I simply want government -- including the courts -- to leave us the hell alone.
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Old 10-18-2007, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,170 posts, read 24,253,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manigault View Post
How can the government stop me from calling myself "Mr. Brain Surgeon" when there is freedom of speech? How can we have 'anti-gang loitering ' laws when there is a constitutional right to assemble? How is wearing a message t-shirt speech? It would be cruel and unusual punishment for me to be arrested at all, so how could this happen in America?

Well, there is a thing called constitutional interpretation. You can't apply the constitutional literally so judges must interpret it. If you disagree with the judges, you call them 'liberal activists'.
You can call yourself anythng you want. Just don't try to practice neurosurgery. Except maybe on fishmonger.

The judges who have twisted our culture into one which rejects a secular holiday like Christmas are neither liberal nor conservative. They are simply fools.
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Old 10-18-2007, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Rural Central Texas
3,672 posts, read 10,574,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
There is a difference, you know. Santa Claus is a secular figure; your examples are religious.
Yes, but since the 1st amendment deals with church and state, they seem more accurate to the discussion.
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Old 10-18-2007, 01:58 PM
 
1,969 posts, read 6,375,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
So who do you trust, Jake? Congress?

Speaking of laughable.
I trust myself and my ability to observe facts. I don't trust Congress as a body, but there is tangible evidence they exist. Not so for unicorns, dracula, Thor, biblegod, the six armed elephant hindu god, Zues, Hercules, virgin born humans- all mythical creatures are equally laughable in my opinion. But I don't care if they "honored" on money to appease the masses- it's no skin off my nose.
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Old 10-18-2007, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,170 posts, read 24,253,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrex62 View Post
Yes, but since the 1st amendment deals with church and state, they seem more accurate to the discussion.
But court decisions have made the old man persona non grata, because he's kinda sorta related to the holiday (which the courts all observe, of course). I find that hypocritical and crypto-fascistic.

Don't you?
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Old 10-18-2007, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,170 posts, read 24,253,889 times
Reputation: 15285
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeDog View Post
I trust myself and my ability to observe facts. I don't trust Congress as a body, but there is tangible evidence they exist. Not so for unicorns, dracula, Thor, biblegod, the six armed elephant hindu god, Zues, Hercules, virgin born humans- all mythical creatures are equally laughable in my opinion. But I don't care if they "honored" on money to appease the masses- it's no skin off my nose.
Next time you need surgery, tell them you want to go to St. Unicorn Hospital.
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Old 10-18-2007, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Rural Central Texas
3,672 posts, read 10,574,440 times
Reputation: 5577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlow View Post
Go ahead and set them all up--but do it on private property. Why do you need or want the government to help you out?
I don't expect government to help. I just don't feel that the federal government has a basis in the 1st amendment to prohibit the lesser governments or any local government supported agency from helping if they feel it fits in with their community.

A number of suits have been pressed against private groups for spending their funds to set up these exhibits at locations owned or maintained by public funds. There is no competing use that is dislocated by these exhibits at the time, nor are any funds being spent specifically for these exhibits, beyond what would be spent for the general upkeep of the property if the exhibit were not present. These cases would appear to me to be a restriction of the activity rather than trying to prevent public expenditures to promote any religion. Any funding involved would be spent regardless of the use of the facility so cannot be considered a promotional expenditure.

I believe that if a agency wants to allow something based on their assesment of the constituency, it should be allowed to even if that something is religious in nature. I think that religious exhibits should be held to the same scrutiny as non-religious exhibits in regard to community standards and legal statues concerning displays, but no more than other exhibits are subjected to.
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