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Old 01-15-2013, 09:40 AM
 
9,855 posts, read 15,182,463 times
Reputation: 5481

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
so in essence then, this is not a free market.

A true free market would always end up in cronyism, with those with the biggest sticks on top.

Proof that it cannot work properly.
Government regulation against monopolies are necessary evils. Protecting against monopolies is, however, an unbelievably small part of what modern western governments currently do. Breaking monopolies into smaller subsidiaries is very different than the problems we currently have with government (aka, trying to take care of the specific needs of individual citizens).

Do you realize that the world is not black and white?
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,692,854 times
Reputation: 9324
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
China is not an unregulated free market, but at least they got this part right according to conservatives: they have no environmental restrictions.

All conservatives know that there is no such thing as pollution. Just doesn't exist! It's like global warming and science...kooky liberal "fancy book-learnin" ideas!
You are exposing your ignorance and MSNBC fueled stereotypes. Millions of conservatives are also environmentalists.

You forget that George Bush led the effort to establish the world's largest marine sanctuary.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,769,662 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
Government regulation against monopolies are necessary evils. Protecting against monopolies is, however, an unbelievably small part of what modern western governments currently do. Breaking monopolies into smaller subsidiaries is very different than the problems we currently have with government (aka, trying to take care of the specific needs of individual citizens).

Do you realize that the world is not black and white?
He does, people who believe in this "free market" don't. Free markets are NOT regulated markets. A market is either free or it isn't.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,692,854 times
Reputation: 9324
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
He does, people who believe in this "free market" don't. Free markets are NOT regulated markets. A market is either free or it isn't.
Not true at all. In fact, your post is silly. Free and regulated are opposite ends of a scale, not an on/off switch. About the only time a 100% free market could occur is with no government at all. China does not have a 100% free market - not even close. They have a huge number market controls and regulations.

Your extreme statement destroys your credibility.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Limbo
6,513 posts, read 7,530,523 times
Reputation: 6319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
It's one thing to trash their own country but quite another to trash every country around them, Myamar, Vietnam, Cambodia, Phillipines, clear cutting of forrests, mining, destroying fisheries.
I've definitely thought about that in respect to pollution. Air pollution doesn't see national boundaries and will hurt surrounding areas. I wouldn't be happy if China's crap was seeping over the border into my country.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:53 AM
 
78,022 posts, read 60,232,230 times
Reputation: 49417
We really have no need to look at China, our own history has plenty of examples like when the Chicago river caught fire or the practices that exacerbated the dust bowl and so on and so forth.

I mean, does anyone realize how many people (as a %) used to die from tainted food products? Here 90 years ago and in China now?

You have to understand though that there needs to be a balance, kind of like how we allow 65MPH when 55mph would clearly save lives. There must be a balanced assumption of risk\cost\reward.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:53 AM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,854 posts, read 10,431,904 times
Reputation: 6670
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
Government regulation against monopolies are necessary evils. Protecting against monopolies is, however, an unbelievably small part of what modern western governments currently do. Breaking monopolies into smaller subsidiaries is very different than the problems we currently have with government (aka, trying to take care of the specific needs of individual citizens).

Do you realize that the world is not black and white?
But that's the point isn't it, that conservatives always seem to argue for these glib, simplistic solutions (the Free Market, States Rights, Less Guv-mint, etc.), that is until we get down to the ''fine print''... aka ''necessary evils'', whose rights, which parts of guv-mint, etc.!

Besides, anyone who seriously argues the U.S. Should Value Greed, Not Need, has no room to be scolding others about ''black and white'' thinking!
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,692,854 times
Reputation: 9324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
This is the unfortunate result of focusing entirely on "economic growth" and "jobs", minus environmental regulations or any other concern for the world around us, both present and future:
Your post reflects a total misunderstanding of free markets. China ranks #138 out of 171 countries in terms of economic freedom.

You really should do some research before posting.

Economic Freedom by Country
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,769,662 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Not true at all. In fact, your post is silly. Free and regulated are opposite ends of a scale, not an on/off switch. About the only time a 100% free market could occur is with no government at all. China does not have a 100% free market - not even close. They have a huge number market controls and regulations.

Your extreme statement destroys your credibility.
Your post is desperation, demonstrated by contradiction going from first to the third sentence, and an obligatory insertion in the middle. The ridiculous nature of your post is demonstrated by you assuming the following false:
"Free markets are NOT regulated markets. A market is either free or it isn't."

But this is somehow true:
"Free and regulated are opposite ends of a scale"

Sorry buddy, I'm not an idiot who is riding the boat you've been. Free markets don't exist for a reason: they can't. Call that extreme, but what does that get you? An opportunity to prove that it does? Well, please proceed.

As for China, there are (obviously) no pollution controls and penalties, or efforts by the government to stop the nuisance. That is a living example of the kind of government you demand, with the idea that corporations can be trusted towards public welfare. As I have said repeatedly, that idea should have died with Mussolini.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:56 AM
 
8,091 posts, read 5,900,867 times
Reputation: 1578
"unregulated free market" is redundant... It either is or it isn't....

LOL @ China being a free market.....

wow....
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