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Old 01-23-2013, 09:21 AM
 
16,437 posts, read 19,145,278 times
Reputation: 9518

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
OK - that was a lot of reading.

First of all - many thanks to the calm, rational answers that several posters with a variety of opinions have expressed. Those posts were a welcome relief from the rabid, bizarre posts (also from a variety of positions) that clutter this thread.

There were so many questions asked, that I am sure I'll miss some if I try to answer each one point by point. Hopefully I can clear up some of the questions with the following statement:

I believe that a shooting at a school occurred in Newtown, CT on the day in question. I do not believe that the majority of the events of that terrible day were manufactured by any "vast, left wing conspiracy."

I DO believe that there are many, many people in government positions who have a very specific agenda for disarming the American people (among other things). I believe that our mainstream media (and this includes Fox) is not as concerned about distributing truth as they are about forwarding their own philosophical ideas via the "packaging" of each story, down to the specific details. For the record, by the way, I used to work for an ABC affiliate station. I can assure you that ANY news is tweaked and stroked and packaged with exactly "how" the message of the events is going to "play," with a fine balance being sought between what the local population (and local ADVERTISERS) will find acceptable and what ABC will find acceptable. Sad but true. I've seen many stories thrown to the side because they might offend either an advertiser or ABC - or both. This practice was definitely NOT limited to the local news - it's a practice that permeates mainstream media - from the top down.

The tragic events - whatever they were - in Newtown, CT have been and continue to be exploited for the purpose of furthering an agenda which includes, but is not limited to, demonizing law abiding citizens who lawfully and responsibly own firearms. This same administration has also encouraged class warfare and divisions within our society, and this is yet another division to exploit.

I thought it was horrible for the NRA to use the example of the President's daughters being protected by armed guards in an ad after the event. I also thought it was horrible for the President to use children behind him on the podium in his recent speech about the proposed legislation and his Executive Orders.

By the way, a little more weirdness about the whole Emilie Parker thing - she is also missing from the class photo taken right before the shooting. Her dad -yes, the one laughing and joking right before the press conference - said she wasn't at school that day. Now - that may well be true. However, it's another odd tidbit in the ongoing questions about this family.

Sandy Hook First Grade Class — Photo Of Classroom Slain By Shooter Adam Lanza - Hollywood Life

I'd also like to know more about Nancy Lanza. Heck, our media was able to dig up more about Joe the Plumber than they have been about this woman! All we "know" right now is that she didn't work, not many people knew her in Newtown, and that she was some sort of "prepper, conspiracy theorist, homeschooling gun lover" - all those bad things that are so vilified by so many people these days.

Now - all that may be true. And I've said from the start that IF this is the case, then she was deplorably negligent when it came to storing her guns, and allowing her clearly disturbed son access to those guns. But I want to know more about this woman. I mean, supposedly it was HER son, HER guns, HER family's car. Now the media retracts it's earlier statements that the car belonged to his mother. It did not. Now according to news releases, it belonged to "a Lanza family member." Who? What's the big secret? WHO DID THE CAR USED IN THE CRIME BELONG TO? That seems a simple question to answer, but apparently it's not.

I am not saying that Nancy Lanza was any sort of innocent victim. In fact, I've posted on various threads on C-D stating that if the story we have is true, then Nancy Lanza is GUILTY of criminal negligence (yes, even in death).

I just want more answers.

Now - FancyFeast - please don't tell me to contact ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, Fox, HuffPost, CNN, etc for answers. You and I both know that I would never get past voice mail.
Good post. I can't rep you, but thanks.

 
Old 01-23-2013, 09:22 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,358 posts, read 7,751,835 times
Reputation: 7213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I think that part of the problem is that you (not you personally, a general "you" meaning those who suspect that information is being manipulated or withheld) don't accept any answers to your questions, and that, not unreasonably given the behavior of conspiracy-theory afficiondos in this and other stories, makes people suspect you may have a larger agenda. You published a long list of questions, some quite reasonable, earlier in this thread, most of which are addressed by snopes.

So why don't you accept the answers? Most of the answers seem logical to me and consistent with human behavior. One exception is the guy running around outside with the gun--I haven't had time to read up on that entirely and it's still confusing, and it seems as though some information is missing from the story.

snopes.com: Sandy Hook Hoax Video
Thank you for posting this snopes link. I hope those in this thread that keep asking questions (but never offering answers) will actually read the information posted over there because they do a good job of clearing up a lot of the inconsistencies that feeds into this so-called Sandy Hook conspiracy.
 
Old 01-23-2013, 09:24 AM
 
5,113 posts, read 4,956,023 times
Reputation: 1732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
What are you trying to say?
If you create a timeline showing major actions on ATT and mass shooting in America and other UN countries you will see a strong correlation showing an unusual (out-of-family statistically) rise in mass shooting in the months prior to these major ATT actions. These mass shootings did result in changing public opinions on gun control.

Time Line of Worldwide School and Mass Shootings Read more: Time Line of Worldwide School Shootings
 
Old 01-23-2013, 09:29 AM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,312,530 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
And I happen to disagree that "reasonable questions" are being asked.

So you have the right to question the Sandy Hook massacre but I don't have the right the question your questioning? Why would that bother you?
If you disagree that reasonable questions are being asked then why not come up with reasonable and rational points to back up your opinion rather then choosing to mock and belittle those who you happen to disagree with? I love a good discussion and am open to hearing different points of view but it's far more interesting and productive when the posts are well thought out with reasons laid out to back up one's claims. The insulting, mocking posts and responses do little to further the discussion and turn something interesting into something ugly.

You have every right to question the questions but the mocking and insults and belittling that you are using to do so are not contributing anything of importance and they are bothersome.
 
Old 01-23-2013, 09:32 AM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,312,530 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland Woman View Post
Thank you for posting this snopes link. I hope those in this thread that keep asking questions (but never offering answers) will actually read the information posted over there because they do a good job of clearing up a lot of the inconsistencies that feeds into this so-called Sandy Hook conspiracy.
Like I said, some things in the snopes thread are plausible and reasonable but not all of them if you've actually seen the news footage, eyewitness accounts and reports that contradict one another. Snopes is basing their conclusions off of the same limited information that has been presented to the public at large. I'll buy some of it but not all of it.
 
Old 01-23-2013, 09:37 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,358 posts, read 7,751,835 times
Reputation: 7213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
Like I said, some things in the snopes thread are plausible and reasonable but not all of them if you've actually seen the news footage, eyewitness accounts and reports that contradict one another. Snopes is basing their conclusions off of the same limited information that has been presented to the public at large. I'll buy some of it but not all of it.
What specifically are you still not buying after reading the Snopes conclusions?
 
Old 01-23-2013, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,111 posts, read 54,597,263 times
Reputation: 66503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland Woman View Post
What specifically are you still not buying after reading the Snopes conclusions?
I have the same question. What, specifically, don't you believe?

Also, I will have to go back and find your original list of questions buried somewhere in this thread.
 
Old 01-23-2013, 09:43 AM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
17,611 posts, read 19,049,265 times
Reputation: 18919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
If you disagree that reasonable questions are being asked then why not come up with reasonable and rational points to back up your opinion rather then choosing to mock and belittle those who you happen to disagree with? I love a good discussion and am open to hearing different points of view but it's far more interesting and productive when the posts are well thought out with reasons laid out to back up one's claims. The insulting, mocking posts and responses do little to further the discussion and turn something interesting into something ugly.

You have every right to question the questions but the mocking and insults and belittling that you are using to do so are not contributing anything of importance and they are bothersome.
Well then MANY of the posts by MANY people in this thread must be bothersome to you. I have seen (and pointed out) insulting and belittling posts by those whom you happen to agree with but I guess those aren't "bothersome" for some reason. (shrug)
 
Old 01-23-2013, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,884 posts, read 36,203,761 times
Reputation: 63544
Here's the deal to me:

I have raised five teens. At some point in each of their teen years, they went through periods (thankfully short ones) when they misrepresented to me facts about what they were doing, where they were going, who they were with, etc. As I told them, the bad thing about misinformation is that if you get enough of it, you begin to consider the source of that information as unreliable. Enough misinformation about something critical and you begin to have serious questions about the entire scenario.

One of my mottoes in life has been "Seek first to understand." There's a LOT going on with this Sandy Hook situation - a lot of political maneuvering from both the left and the right (by the way, I am an independent who is fiscally conservative and socially liberal so I don't fit neatly into either the Democrat or Republican slots). I have yet to meet a politician who won't use a tragedy to further their own agenda or grab the spotlight. Simply put, I don't trust most politicians - from any party. And in this day of political and social polarization, I am even more skeptical of the motives of our "leaders" of every political persuasion.

Anyway, back to "seeking first to understand." There ARE reasons why these school shootings occur - I want to know more about those reasons - without political agendas smathered all over the search for reasons. That's my approach, but it's sadly not the case for many people and entities, including those on Capitol Hill and the NRA.

When researching a topic, I generally find that the truth lies somewhere in the middle between MSNBC, Fox, Pravda, Alex Jones and HuffPost (just to name a few of our illustrious media outlets). I read and research articles and factoids from across the internet and the world.

And I always try to apply another motto: "Follow the money."

Never leave that one out.
 
Old 01-23-2013, 09:47 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,358 posts, read 7,751,835 times
Reputation: 7213
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Here's the deal to me:

I have raised five teens. At some point in each of their teen years, they went through periods (thankfully short ones) when they misrepresented to me facts about what they were doing, where they were going, who they were with, etc. As I told them, the bad thing about misinformation is that if you get enough of it, you begin to consider the source of that information as unreliable. Enough misinformation about something critical and you begin to have serious questions about the entire scenario.

One of my mottoes in life has been "Seek first to understand." There's a LOT going on with this Sandy Hook situation - a lot of political maneuvering from both the left and the right (by the way, I am an independent who is fiscally conservative and socially liberal so I don't fit neatly into either the Democrat or Republican slots). I have yet to meet a politician who won't use a tragedy to further their own agenda or grab the spotlight. Simply put, I don't trust most politicians - from any party. And in this day of political and social polarization, I am even more skeptical of the motives of our "leaders" of every political persuasion.

Anyway, back to "seeking first to understand." There ARE reasons why these school shootings occur - I want to know more about those reasons - without political agendas smathered all over the search for reasons. That's my approach, but it's sadly not the case for many people and entities, including those on Capitol Hill and the NRA.

When researching a topic, I generally find that the truth lies somewhere in the middle between MSNBC, Fox, Pravda, Alex Jones and HuffPost (just to name a few of our illustrious media outlets). I read and research articles and factoids from across the internet and the world.

And I always try to apply another motto: "Follow the money."

Never leave that one out.
Then don't leave out the vast sums of money at the disposal of the NRA for having the best motives for keeping the so-called Sandy Hook Hoax alive.
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