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Old 01-22-2013, 06:09 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,885 posts, read 12,994,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
It is for the same reason that people in prison are not able to own firearms. When one has demonstrated the inability to abide by the other elements of the Constitution and law, they sacrifice certain rights.

Do you think prisoners in jail should have firearms?

when you are in prison you lose your status as a free citizen and cannot have any firearm. if a felon if let loose after their sentence is done, and is not on any parole after they get out of prison, then they should have all rights returned to them, all of them, not just a couple.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:11 AM
 
20,978 posts, read 16,215,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
If the right to bear arms "shall not be infringed" why have I seen so many here want to ban the rights of the mentally unstable to own and wield arms? I didn't see a word in the constitution about limiting the rights to crazy people to have guns.

So are you for limits and infringement or not?

Read this story about this fine representative of the gun community. They took all his guns. Because of some FB pictures and statements.

So he murdered his mother in the past and then purchased all these guns LEGALLY.

Seems his rights are being infringed?

Murderous 'monster' acquires an arsenal | StarTribune.com
I have not seen the NRA or any other 2nd amendment protection group want rights for crazy people to own guns.

You cannot infringe on the rights of everyone due to occasional mistakes.

The same arguments the left use in their UNCONSTITUTIONAL welfare argument....."We'd rather err on the side of caution" when it comes to welfare fraud.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:13 AM
 
11,780 posts, read 8,562,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
when you are in prison you lose your status as a free citizen and cannot have any firearm. if a felon if let loose after their sentence is done, and is not on any parole after they get out of prison, then they should have all rights returned to them, all of them, not just a couple.
Maybe some felons, but I'm not so sure about violent felons. The punishment has to fit the crime, unfortunately certain felons have high recidivism rates. It would be nice if the justice system focused on reform and not punishment.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:19 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,885 posts, read 12,994,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
Maybe some felons, but I'm not so sure about violent felons. The punishment has to fit the crime, unfortunately certain felons have high recidivism rates. It would be nice if the justice system focused on reform and not punishment.


then keep them on parole. if they are on parole for life, then they are not free and cannot have firearms.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:51 AM
 
1,487 posts, read 2,049,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
Maybe some felons, but I'm not so sure about violent felons. The punishment has to fit the crime, unfortunately certain felons have high recidivism rates. It would be nice if the justice system focused on reform and not punishment.

Once the person has been proven guilty, convicted and sentenced for the crime he falls under the "penal" system. That is the punishment. But if you have ever visited a federal prison you'll probably agree with those who say we do not have a "penal system" but rather we have a "rehabilitation system". We rehabilitate the criminal without the punishment and often the criminal doesn't see what he or she did wrong and that most often leads to recidivism. So when the emphasis is put on rehabilitation without proper punishment you now have a weak link in the entire system and it renders the system less effective.

You cannot rehabilitate a person who doesn't realize that he has done something wrong and that is often the case.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:52 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,885 posts, read 12,994,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom9 View Post
Once the person has been proven guilty, convicted and sentenced for the crime he falls under the "penal" system. That is the punishment. But if you have ever visited a federal prison you'll probably agree with those who say we do not have a "penal system" but rather we have a "rehabilitation system". We rehabilitate the criminal without the punishment and often the criminal doesn't see what he or she did wrong and that most often leads to recidivism. So when the emphasis is put on rehabilitation without proper punishment you now have a weak link in the entire system and it renders the system less effective.

if our prisons were more like turkeys, then our repeat felons would be alot less.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:57 AM
 
1,487 posts, read 2,049,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
if our prisons were more like turkeys, then our repeat felons would be alot less.

Under the new "private sector" ownership of prisons that may be quite possible.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:59 AM
 
11,780 posts, read 8,562,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom9 View Post
Once the person has been proven guilty, convicted and sentenced for the crime he falls under the "penal" system. That is the punishment. But if you have ever visited a federal prison you'll probably agree with those who say we do not have a "penal system" but rather we have a "rehabilitation system". We rehabilitate the criminal without the punishment and often the criminal doesn't see what he or she did wrong and that most often leads to recidivism. So when the emphasis is put on rehabilitation without proper punishment you now have a weak link in the entire system and it renders the system less effective.

You cannot rehabilitate a person who doesn't realize that he has done something wrong and that is often the case.
Maybe, I really don't know. I do know that criminals go in and come out as more knowledgeable criminals not reformed criminals. I don't have enough comparative information to make a judgement call on this. I'll have to look it up.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:02 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,885 posts, read 12,994,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
Maybe, I really don't know. I do know that criminals go in and come out as more knowledgeable criminals not reformed criminals. I don't have enough comparative information to make a judgement call on this. I'll have to look it up.

tghen keep them in prison for life or on parole for life. either way they are not free and not citizens. that way they cannot have their rights restored to them.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:29 AM
 
18,543 posts, read 9,533,248 times
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We all agree that every right is subject to reasonable restrictions. What is reasonable? Reasonable isn't "common sense" toted by politicians nowadays. Banning something that looks scary is not reasonable. Restricting law abiding citizens while doing nothing to the criminals is not reasonable. Just because "I don't see the need" is not reasonable.

Let real science speak the whole truth and focus on criminals and mentally ills. That is reasonable.
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