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Wow. Sad. The black community really needs to pull it together and do something about thug violence.
Obama ignores it because its not on his agenda.
He should be putting together initiatives in cities like New Orleans, Chicago, Detroit, Oakland, & Philadelphia where Black on Black violence is a huge problem.
Then again he doesn't care...the jack ass already has their vote.
Thanks for an intelligent, civil, and articulate reply, even though (naturally), I take issue with many of your points. In fact, rather than address them by broken up quotes, let me just reply with a few "bullet points", in come ways starting from the bottom of your own letter.
1. First of all, either I didn't explain well enough or you misunderstood, as in I never meant to imply that "you" (in the first-person sense), were "personally" responsible for the dysfuctions and out-of-proportion percentage of violent crimes committed by young black males. No, I was talking in a larger collective sense of that so many in the black-community -- and especially so-called "black-leaders" like Jesse and Al -- make excuses for them, and actually profit off of it. Others simply reflexively blame it all on "white racism"...with the overt of the long past, or what they personally, perpetually, see as still existing today.
And to be honest, GM? Your posts have a strong and persistent ring of the latter. And you know? Maybe if I were black I might feel the same way. Who knows? About the only thing I can say is that this constant cry that the past is responsible for the present in terms of "racism and discrimination" is rapidly wearing out in terms of excuses for black crime rates. Many people are scared to say it aloud, but it is there.
I do feel there was a better way of wording a few things. I have no control over the leaders of the Black community. I don't even pay any attention to them. And my views are shaped by what I've seen in my life. What I've learned is that racism cannot be downplayed. It still exists. It hasn't died. Some people are just more covert about it.
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2. The role that "race" plays in terms of propensity to commit crimes, as opposed to economic factors? I don't know if anyone really knows the answer to this one. It is a volitile subject that, as you indicate, not many are willing to discuss openly and honestly. I do know -- and this is easily verified by a little research and official stats -- that majority black neighborhoods -- all other things being equal in terms of socio-economic factors -- still rank highest in terms of crime rates, as compared to other racial/ethnic groups. I don't take the slightest bit of glee in presenting that, but ignoring a truth doesn't make it go away, nor make it "racist".
But this is the thing. What do you know about those areas? What gets me is that so many people present such information as if "Blacks are a problem". Rather, I see the crime as symptomatic of other problems.
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3. Have you ever read the "Shaker Heights Study". It is interesting...
I've heard of it, and this is a result of being made to feel that one has to dumb themselves down to fit in. No one ever seems to think about that.
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4. I did do a bit of looking into what you presented concerning Missouri City, Texas, and Cascade Heights in Atlanta, Georgia. Missouri City was indeed a plurality black (41%), and did show a relatively low crime rate as compared to the rest of Texas. What was unclear however, was where most of the crimes that occured there, did occur. As in, in the mostly black areas of town, in the white, asian, etc?
So far as Cascade Heights (Atlanta, GA) goes? That was not so ambiguous. They are about 90% black, and got a solid score of "F" (on the old teacher grading scale) when it came to crime rates. So I am not sure what figures you are looking at when you recommended it. Anyway, here is the link:
Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
I showed Missouri City because I wanted to show that a place can have a very large Black population and be a safe place. Missouri City is a high income area, with a high rate of 2 parent homes. I mentioned before that alot of crime is symptomatic of other problems.
And there are other places too. University Park,IL is majority Black, and has had a rapidly dropping crime rate.
As for Cascade Heights, this is what I know of Cascade Heights. Alot of the crime is concentrated around the apartment complexes. Most of the crime is usually committed by people in the surrounding areas. According to a friend who has been near that area, he has told me that there are alot of affluent Blacks living in million-dollar homes, or at least in very nice residential areas, where are the crime is minimal.
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5. Just to sum up, my only real intent here is to just express some blunt concerns and absolutely reject any contention that there is any such thing as "white guilt" because of what others may have done 200 years ago.
I never said anything about "white guilt". My point was to prove that there are still people who will judge others based on race. I never once denied anything about crime. I was debunking stereotypes. I consider crime as something limited to one segment of the Black population, and it isn't the majority of Blacks.
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Further, again, the ONLY thing that is going to change the perception of young black males -- especially as a group -- being something to be feared and dreaded -- especially late at night on the streets or swaggering into a convenience store at the same hour -- is going to be when the black community gets fed up with it enough to do something about it, themselves. Otherwise? That "stereotype" is going to persist...and for good reasons.
I still have to ask. How does any of that help me? I have to ask because at the end of the day, it is still personal to me. I am the one being affected by someone else's stereotyping. I have nothing to do with crime. The persons who are committing crimes and living up to the stereotypes are the ones I have nothing to do with. I can't stop them from committing crimes because I often don't live near these individuals, I don't associate with them. I've also learned that such individuals do not listen to people like me, or people like Bill Cosby. Such individuals involved in crime don't care who they harm directly or indirectly. Even prison doesn't scare some criminals. I've learned this. I can only do my part. That is why I ask such questions like "What good does it do me to be stereotyped"?
Thanks for an intelligent, civil, and articulate reply, even though (naturally), I take issue with many of your points. In fact, rather than address them by broken up quotes, let me just reply with a few "bullet points", in come ways starting from the bottom of your own letter.
1. First of all, either I didn't explain well enough or you misunderstood, as in I never meant to imply that "you" (in the first-person sense), were "personally" responsible for the dysfuctions and out-of-proportion percentage of violent crimes committed by young black males. No, I was talking in a larger collective sense of that so many in the black-community -- and especially so-called "black-leaders" like Jesse and Al -- make excuses for them, and actually profit off of it. Others simply reflexively blame it all on "white racism"...with the overt of the long past, or what they personally, perpetually, see as still existing today.
And to be honest, GM? Your posts have a strong and persistent ring of the latter. And you know? Maybe if I were black I might feel the same way. Who knows? About the only thing I can say is that this constant cry that the past is responsible for the present in terms of "racism and discrimination" is rapidly wearing out in terms of excuses for black crime rates. Many people are scared to say it aloud, but it is there.
2. The role that "race" plays in terms of propensity to commit crimes, as opposed to economic factors? I don't know if anyone really knows the answer to this one. It is a volitile subject that, as you indicate, not many are willing to discuss openly and honestly. I do know -- and this is easily verified by a little research and official stats -- that majority black neighborhoods -- all other things being equal in terms of socio-economic factors -- still rank highest in terms of crime rates, as compared to other racial/ethnic groups. I don't take the slightest bit of glee in presenting that, but ignoring a truth doesn't make it go away, nor make it "racist".
3. Have you ever read the "Shaker Heights Study". It is interesting...
4. I did do a bit of looking into what you presented concerning Missouri City, Texas, and Cascade Heights in Atlanta, Georgia. Missouri City was indeed a plurality black (41%), and did show a relatively low crime rate as compared to the rest of Texas. What was unclear however, was where most of the crimes that occured there, did occur. As in, in the mostly black areas of town, in the white, asian, etc?
So far as Cascade Heights (Atlanta, GA) goes? That was not so ambiguous. They are about 90% black, and got a solid score of "F" (on the old teacher grading scale) when it came to crime rates. So I am not sure what figures you are looking at when you recommended it. Anyway, here is the link:
Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
5. Just to sum up, my only real intent here is to just express some blunt concerns and absolutely reject any contention that there is any such thing as "white guilt" because of what others may have done 200 years ago.
Further, again, the ONLY thing that is going to change the perception of young black males -- especially as a group -- being something to be feared and dreaded -- especially late at night on the streets or swaggering into a convenience store at the same hour -- is going to be when the black community gets fed up with it enough to do something about it, themselves. Otherwise? That "stereotype" is going to persist...and for good reasons.
The role that "race" plays in the propensity to commit crimes only plays, because in the poor black neighborhoods there is this thing called the illegal drug trade going on. Then, factor in that high density poor neighborhoods in inner-cities are most likely going to be majority black, and with the gangs associated with the illegal drug trade fighting over turf in these high density/small land mass areas....well, they are going to step on each others businesses and violence will ensue. Factor in that a lot of these kids who fall into these gangs are coming from single parent homes where the father is absent(or sometimes incarcerated), and you have ripe grounds for angry young boys/men who are wise to the streets, but unwise to the discipline/formal education needed to attain a legal(and sustaining) life for themselves. The generational missteps are unfortunate, indeed, and where you see a son that wishes to grow to become an engineer like his father(in a more middle/upper middle class neighborhood)....you find in these poor black neighborhoods the same propensity for too many of the young boy/man to follow in his father's footsteps(except in this case it is illegal and possibly violent). In poor white areas you find an illegal drug trade, too. It usually involves crystal meth, but without all the gang wars over turf, stuff. Also, in the poor white areas since they are more likely in rural areas, there is less availability to rob/carjack/etc(and when they do, the percentages of course will be a bit lower) as there is for a poor black person in the inner-city. These are just a few of the reasons(IMHO) of the role "race" plays.....and I didn't even mention how the cards were stacked against them(the black man) a long time ago by a government that viewed them as lesser beings(plenty of american history to back this claim, even when the Civil War ended, and i'm talking about the whole country not just the south), and in many instances still do(see stop and frisk program in NYC just to name one). I say the most damning fact to the propensity to commit crime is the need to have something that one doesn't have. Ergo, my opinion is that it is mainly a socioeconomic reason for the crime in inner-city majority poor black neighborhoods, and factor in racist policies that are still implemented even if not consciously(see drug trade, prison-industrial complex); and you have what you see. And once again, there is more to it, but this was long enough for now.
The role that "race" plays in the propensity to commit crimes only plays, because in the poor black neighborhoods there is this thing called the illegal drug trade going on. Then, factor in that high density poor neighborhoods in inner-cities are most likely going to be majority black, and with the gangs associated with the illegal drug trade fighting over turf in these high density/small land mass areas....well, they are going to step on each others businesses and violence will ensue. Factor in that a lot of these kids who fall into these gangs are coming from single parent homes where the father is absent(or sometimes incarcerated), and you have ripe grounds for angry young boys/men who are wise to the streets, but unwise to the discipline/formal education needed to attain a legal(and sustaining) life for themselves. The generational missteps are unfortunate, indeed, and where you see a son that wishes to grow to become an engineer like his father(in a more middle/upper middle class neighborhood)....you find in these poor black neighborhoods the same propensity for too many of the young boy/man to follow in his father's footsteps(except in this case it is illegal and possibly violent). In poor white areas you find an illegal drug trade, too. It usually involves crystal meth, but without all the gang wars over turf, stuff. Also, in the poor white areas since they are more likely in rural areas, there is less availability to rob/carjack/etc(and when they do, the percentages of course will be a bit lower) as there is for a poor black person in the inner-city. These are just a few of the reasons(IMHO) of the role "race" plays.....and I didn't even mention how the cards were stacked against them(the black man) a long time ago by a government that viewed them as lesser beings(plenty of american history to back this claim, even when the Civil War ended, and i'm talking about the whole country not just the south), and in many instances still do(see stop and frisk program in NYC just to name one). I say the most damning fact to the propensity to commit crime is the need to have something that one doesn't have. Ergo, my opinion is that it is mainly a socioeconomic reason for the crime in inner-city majority poor black neighborhoods, and factor in racist policies that are still implemented even if not consciously(see drug trade, prison-industrial complex); and you have what you see. And once again, there is more to it, but this was long enough for now.
Three questions, BK..
1. Who sold Africans into slavery to begin with??. Was it other Africans? Nothing is apart from that in terms of the legacy of slavery. The reason blacks were brought into the New World to begin with, was that their own "people" sold them into it. So who is to blame for all this?
2. Why is it that other racial/ethnic areas -- even of the same economic class -- have a consistently lower violent crime rate than do those dominated by blacks?
3. Who/What can change all this, other than the concerned black community to start listening to black conservatives like Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams, rather than race/poverty demogogues like Jesse and Al...
1. Who sold Africans into slavery to begin with??. Was it other Africans? Nothing is apart from that in terms of the legacy of slavery. The reason blacks were brought into the New World to begin with, was that their own "people" sold them into it. So who is to blame for all this?
i cant imagine why archie bunker wants his guns. new orleans seems safe enough after all they had the martin luther king parade just the other day.
signed
a former resident
1. Who sold Africans into slavery to begin with??. Was it other Africans? Nothing is apart from that in terms of the legacy of slavery. The reason blacks were brought into the New World to begin with, was that their own "people" sold them into it. So who is to blame for all this?
2. Why is it that other racial/ethnic areas -- even of the same economic class -- have a consistently lower violent crime rate than do those dominated by blacks?
3. Who/What can change all this, other than the concerned black community to start listening to black conservatives like Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams, rather than race/poverty demogogues like Jesse and Al...
So, you think these black guys went over to Peru and purchased the coke, and then brought it back to the ghetto? Also, do you think that higher density areas(meaning larger cities are going to have more poor black neighborhoods) of economically poor, educatedly poor, single parent, generational history of incarceration, a community that has a history(and also present history) dealing with corrupt law enforcement(police brutality and intimidation against them is true and backed by facts) may have a little to do with it? Most of the poor whites don't live in large city centers. No, most are spread out in more rural areas where there are less people, meaning less availability to commit crime(robbing, carjackings, etc). Rural poor whites don't have to fight over turf to sell their meth. You say why don't the same socioeconomic class' of different races have lower crime rates, but seem to leave out where those other same socioeconomic class' live, and also that even the poor whites still benefit from a society still engrained with white privileges. I already mentioned where the majority of the poor whites live in relation to where a large majority of the poor blacks live, and how that affects crime. Also, I mentioned the illegal drug trade of which to my knowledge I have never seen a coca field in Detroit.
Who should they listen to? It would be in their best interest to listen to neither conservative nor liberal, but to knowledge that they'll receive through a proper education. And maybe stop the drug war, that'll stop sending them to prison(making some more hardened criminals when released, and more suspicious of the system), and lesson the violence on the street corners over turf; also it will help keep more of the fathers in their children lives. Provide a livable wage that will help single parents, who are a majority single mothers, so they'll be able to provide for their family; and a livable wage will also make doing things the legal way, instead of the illegal way, more enticing for a lot of the young males. A few more things, but this is enough for now.
Concerning who sold who into slavery. Well, I know that those white dudes who went over to Africa were just there to sight see, and harm no one; but those white dudes sure didn't turn down the offers for slaves. And just look at the 'Tuskegee Syphilis Experiments' and the way our government treated those black folks. And that's just one instance......look at 'Jim Crow' era days, too. And that's just two out of MANY.
Concerning who sold who into slavery. Well, I know that those white dudes who went over to Africa were just there to sight see, and harm no one; but those white dudes sure didn't turn down the offers for slaves. And just look at the 'Tuskegee Syphilis Experiments' and the way our government treated those black folks. And that's just one instance......look at 'Jim Crow' era days, too. And that's just two out of MANY.
BK? Who sold the African slaves into slavery to begin with? I ask you again. I know all about Jim Crow and etc, etc. I am asking you who sold the blacks into slavery to begin with? It seems a very simple question. It couldn't possibily be that certain African leaders made a good profit off of it, could it? Nawwww....
BK? Who sold the African slaves into slavery to begin with? I ask you again. I know all about Jim Crow and etc, etc. I am asking you who sold the blacks into slavery to begin with? It seems a very simple question. It couldn't possibily be that certain African leaders made a good profit off of it, could it? Nawwww....
Who's saying that those African leaders were saints? I didn't. Reread where I typed that the white dudes "sure didn't turn down the offers for slaves" part. That kinda means that those white dudes were offered to buy the slaves from Africans. From the time when the evil, barbaric white men brought the African slaves to this land....to the present day prison-industrial complex keeping mainly poor black men coming and going from prison due to the illegal drug trade/a justice system that favors money over actual justice.....and a society that views poor black men with a leery eye, well, these blows to a collective psyche of a people can be very damaging. There have been quite a few obstacles placed in the path of these people, and many of these obstacles have been deliberately designed to keep them in their place.
Last edited by busterkeaton; 01-26-2013 at 09:51 PM..
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