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Old 01-23-2013, 09:30 AM
 
51,862 posts, read 41,758,040 times
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As predicted, like rats leaving a sinking ship.....the early posters gleefully hoping for another school massacre....especially in a "red" gun toting state.....have abandoned thread when it turns out to be one of the typical shootings that make up over 50% of gun violence in the US.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Florida
62,956 posts, read 34,295,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordlover View Post
Oh come on now. I'm pretty sure the first thing the Govt. would do when planning to take all the guns away from citizens would be to relax gun laws, right?
I think they would just tell people to turn them in, like they did in Australia.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
6,939 posts, read 7,771,996 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
That doesn't explain why you think an apartment complex or a dormitory is any more or less safe. Make an argument and support it.


Ah, didn't know they were in the original link about Utah's concealed carry. I presumed it was from a separate link--but I still am not seeing it. Where are you going for those stats?



I agree, I think less government is better, but I understand where government is necessary. The private sector isn't any better at safe-guarding information as well. Considering there are central repositories of personal information (social security numbers, dates of births, names, addresses, home values, etc), all of which is accessible both in public and by government officials, some of who may not be scrupulous, doesn't lend any confidence to data security. That's an argument for an entirely different time.



Your post was preceded by this...

Like I said, "Gubmint are fascists" types. This isn't 1930's Germany.



In terms of unsolved homicides, how much easier would it be to solve those crimes if police can find out where a firearm came from? While it is accurate that many firearms are not obtained through legal channels, many of them are. I'm not just talking about 'gun-show loopholse,' but unscrupulous dealers and strawman purchases as well. If you can look up where a firearm was last purchased, you can start investigating to whom it was sold to (and if that person sold it--so on and so forth). I don't think a registration will stop new crimes from being committed, but it could certainly aid in solving ones that have already been.

And, as I said, this isn't 1930's Germany. A national registration isn't going to lead to a mass of confiscation. This country would never allow it.



It'd stop the gunshow loophole (which really isn't a loophole). A national database and an empowered BATFE could go a long way to shutting down illicit sources of sales.
While in theory the idea of the national database sounds good, I have other problems with it than the privacy issue. First, what about the guns that are already out there? I think the logistics of trying to enforce the national registry would be a nightmare and an unjustified expense. Second, not all firearms sold in this country travel through the official channels. Just as there is a supply of firearms going into Mexico, there is a supply coming from Mexico. Those firearms are the ones we need to be watching out for, because those are the ones that are being delivered directly into the hands of criminals. No way to register them, so the registry doesn't affect them in the slightest. In short, the national registry would be an extremely expensive invasion of privacy that wouldn't actually do much to stop crime.

And, as I said, this isn't 1930's Germany. A national registration isn't going to lead to a mass of confiscation. This country would never allow it.

As I said before, I don't believe this scenario is likely. That does not make it impossible.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:27 AM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,048,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRom View Post
While in theory the idea of the national database sounds good, I have other problems with it than the privacy issue. First, what about the guns that are already out there? I think the logistics of trying to enforce the national registry would be a nightmare and an unjustified expense. Second, not all firearms sold in this country travel through the official channels. Just as there is a supply of firearms going into Mexico, there is a supply coming from Mexico. Those firearms are the ones we need to be watching out for, because those are the ones that are being delivered directly into the hands of criminals. No way to register them, so the registry doesn't affect them in the slightest. In short, the national registry would be an extremely expensive invasion of privacy that wouldn't actually do much to stop crime.

And, as I said, this isn't 1930's Germany. A national registration isn't going to lead to a mass of confiscation. This country would never allow it.

As I said before, I don't believe this scenario is likely. That does not make it impossible.

I wasn't explicitly expecting a gun registry to stop crime. A sales registry would help find out who the bad dealers are in the United States, and a gun registry would help solve gun crimes already committed.

There are ways to soft-enforce a registry. Go with the carrot instead of the stick. Providing incentives for registering your firearms (many states already have handgun registries), and consolidating what information we do have would go a long way.

Sales records would help reduce the incidences of criminals getting firearms through legal channels, which realistically would reduce the flow of firearms into the hands of criminals.

If you want to reduce crime, you'll need to legalize our vices--drugs and prostitution. As long as money stays on the table from illicit drugs and sex, you're going to have organized crime to supply it, you're going to have gangs, and you're going to have the associated gang violence. You'd cut our gun homicide rate in half without gangs.

The other rough half of gun homicides are "arguments," like domestic abuse scenarios. Justified shootings account for less than a thousand homicides (including police justified shootings) each year. That's a harder nut to crack.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Florida
62,956 posts, read 34,295,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
Gun registration is always the first step to gun confiscation. Always has been, always will be. If you do background checks there's no need for registration.
If this means that every country which has registries, have confiscated weapons, the claim is not true. There are many countries which require reqistration, but have not confiscated guns. As a matter of fact, I can't think of any other country than US which do not require registration. If a nation wants to confiscate guns, all they have to do is inform the people to turn in the firearms, and most people will comply. Those who would not comply, are the same people who would also refuse registration, so it doesn't make any difference. I do not think such registry would serve any true purpose, so I do not support it.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:31 AM
 
Location: The Cascade Foothills
10,953 posts, read 8,681,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post

What does your son think of the swath of firearm regulations being proposed?
Actually, we haven't sat down and discussed each and every proposal. I do know that he's not worried and he thinks that all the people who are spending their last dime buying guns and stockpiling ammunition are crazy and paranoid.

Lately he's been more interested in the winter steelhead run than he has been about the gun debate.

But my son is a sane gun owner, and from what I see in these threads, that makes him a rarity.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:34 AM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,048,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinebar View Post
Actually, we haven't sat down and discussed each and every proposal. I do know that he's not worried and he thinks that all the people who are spending their last dime buying guns and stockpiling ammunition are crazy and paranoid.

Lately he's been more interested in the winter steelhead run than he has been about the gun debate.

But my son is a sane gun owner, and from what I see in these threads, makes him a rarity.
It's probably because the stuff that's likely to pass is sane. The stuff that's unlikely to pass is not quite "common sense." But, you know, your son probably isn't the "gubmint are fascists" type anyway.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:37 AM
 
Location: The Cascade Foothills
10,953 posts, read 8,681,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
It's probably because the stuff that's likely to pass is sane. The stuff that's unlikely to pass is not quite "common sense." But, you know, your son probably isn't the "gubmint are fascists" type anyway.
No, he isn't.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,241 posts, read 15,300,875 times
Reputation: 4583
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
Gun registration is always the first step to gun confiscation. Always has been, always will be. If you do background checks there's no need for registration.
Oh please. You may need to stick with the Fox forum, where I suspect you will find people who will believe that nonsense.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:55 AM
 
Location: The Lone Star State
8,031 posts, read 7,630,775 times
Reputation: 5042
So apparently this loser shot himself in the arse after he was done with the argument with his buddy...

Lone Star College gunman accidently shoots himself in the butt before giving up
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