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Old 01-23-2013, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,946 posts, read 15,043,716 times
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For example, if there was to be a push for civil unions. It may not be the ideal thing or even equal thing, but would be a stepping stone to inevitable marriage and would be much easier to pass today. Please don't call me a bigot, homophobe, or mentally insane for asking this question. It is a genuine question and I am wondering the mentality behind both viewpoints. Is compromise a stepping stone to progress? Why or why not?

 
Old 01-23-2013, 01:39 PM
 
1,597 posts, read 978,695 times
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A civil union is a marriage.

Big Business Persons and Big Government Persons do it all the time.

The "offspring" I don't know about, though.

To some, it would be a marriage made in hell.
 
Old 01-23-2013, 02:29 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,894,299 times
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Not at all if those seeking compromise, have the same goals in mind, all too often those who want compromise, are not willing themselves to compromise, unless they get their way.

All too often those who want compromise, are not truly willing themselves to compromise, blaming the side that does want to compromise.

Making zillions of excuses.
 
Old 01-23-2013, 02:39 PM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,367 posts, read 8,588,471 times
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The problem with ''social conservative'' issues, is they're based on some subjective notion of ''morality'', so ''compromise'' is no more possible for those folks than it would be on, say, the issue of slavery. Although come to think of it, a lot of conservatives actually do see some ''middle ground'' even on that issue... except I think they like to call it ''States Rights''!
 
Old 01-23-2013, 03:06 PM
 
7,371 posts, read 4,636,448 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
The problem with ''social conservative'' issues, is they're based on some subjective notion of ''morality'', so ''compromise'' is no more possible for those folks than it would be on, say, the issue of slavery. Although come to think of it, a lot of conservatives actually do see some ''middle ground'' even on that issue... except I think they like to call it ''States Rights''!
Something wrong with states' rights? Other than liberal propaganda based on slavery and racism, what exactly is wrong with states' rights? Got any example of states rights being a bad idea that isn't half a century old?

Also, these "subjective notions" you're being so patronizing about have been proven by empirical research to be beneficial to society. After decades of derision from the left on family values and turning single mothers into unsung heroes, surprise surprise, broken families turns out to be the leading cause of poverty, suicide, drug abuse, delinquency, and high school dropout rates amongst children.

And no, I am not a social conservative. I support gay marriage. I just disagree with your attitude about the useless subjectivity of conservative morality to society. Family values developed over hundreds and thousands of years of evolution and social organization for a reason. Because society functioned well with them. I believe that individual freedom is a higher value and consequently it is worth accepting some societal decay in order to preserve freedom of choice for everyone. But I would vehemently disagree that society is organized based on nothing but subjective notions. The nuclear family developed all over the world as the fundamental unit of society because it preserved order, distributed labor and resources effectively, and produced productive offspring for new generations.
 
Old 01-23-2013, 05:20 PM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,367 posts, read 8,588,471 times
Reputation: 5919
Though I obviously have opinions, was not arguing whether ''social conservative'' issues ( e.g. abortion, gay marriage, contraception, religious 'rights', etc.), are right or wrong, only that they're largely based on religious matters of 'faith' (and are therefore personal & subjective) values. Yes, there may be other 'reasons', but the fact of the matter is that most of the opponents of say, gay marriage and abortion tend to be religious-based (like the millions of dollars that Mormons contributed towards supporting Prop 8 here in California).

And BTW, slaves and women were also once subjugated in order to ''perpetuate thousands of years of evolution and social organization''. Oppression and depriving folks of their freedom is just that... no matter how you try to gussy up the ''reasons'' (or ''put lipstick on a pig'', as the case may be)!
 
Old 01-23-2013, 05:40 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,065,526 times
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The ability to compromise is a reflection of ones maturity. The inverse is also true.
 
Old 01-23-2013, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,793 posts, read 3,897,064 times
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Compromise is an absolute necessity for a functioning representative government. Many modern politicians refuse to compromise, which is why our government is not currently functional.
 
Old 01-23-2013, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,332 posts, read 10,444,250 times
Reputation: 7964
Look at the North Carolina vote. Same sex marriage was ALREADY illegal, but civil unions/domestic partnerships were allowed. So they went on and passed a constitutional amendment that outlaws ALL forms of recognition for same sex couples.
Why should I compromise on my civil rights? Would you?
 
Old 01-23-2013, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,946 posts, read 15,043,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
Look at the North Carolina vote. Same sex marriage was ALREADY illegal, but civil unions/domestic partnerships were allowed. So they went on and passed a constitutional amendment that outlaws ALL forms of recognition for same sex couples.
Why should I compromise on my civil rights? Would you?
Agreed, but civil unions would grant you all the rights associated with marriage EXCEPT for the word, and those civil unions would more than likely become marriages sooner rather than later. The truth is a vast majority of the population would accept civil unions today, while barely over half support full marriages. A decade ago, civil unions was the mainstream liberal position, today its the informed conservative position. NC's marriage amendment was able to pass because it banned gay marriages. Those who went to vote for it would have voted for it whether or not civil unions were included in the ban or not. It's marriage they wanted to ban. The radical right wing, completely out of touch with mainstream America, added the complete ban on all forms of recognition to that amendment.
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