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Old 01-27-2013, 11:41 PM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,766,171 times
Reputation: 2361

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua View Post
That said, Republicans have a smooch-party going on with Saudi Arabia, the country that most heavily finances jihad against the U.S. and Americans, and that makes me sick to my stomach.
Obama should be making you pretty sick to your stomach. He supports the Egyptian President, the former leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, who is determined to bring Egypt under Islamic law. Morsi has called Obama a liar and has demanded that Obama release the Blind Sheikh. Obama is using US money to help Morsi's movement. There is currently a second Arab Spring taking place in Egypt and Obama is sending 16 fighter jets and over 200 tanks to Egypt. If things lead to an armed civil war, Morsi can use these weapons provided by the US against their own people, the opposition - who would, once again, be fighting for democracy.

Obama continues the time honored tradition to fund Pakistan. The very heart of terrorists and terrorism. It is the breeding, training, and recruitment country for terrorists. They gave shelter to OBL. They give shelter to the Taliban who hide out in Pakistan. They cross over into Afghantistan to give armed support to the Taliban. There's no secret to all of that, yet the US continues to fund Pakistan with US dollars for one reason: it needs Pakistan to have access to Afghanistan.

NATO voted on troop withdrawal from Afghanistan in 2014 - this was not a decision made by Obama the Great One, but a vote by NATO. The US has the option to withdraw (and admit defeat) or stay on with no assistance. If the US couldn't win the war on terror in Afghanistan with NATO assistance, it sure won't win the war on terror by itself.

 
Old 01-27-2013, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,794 posts, read 14,235,225 times
Reputation: 7950
Israel and Britain are our sister and mother, and always will be. We went our separate ways long ago but if they emergency email us we drop everything and rush to their side in a heartbeat.
 
Old 01-27-2013, 11:56 PM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,766,171 times
Reputation: 2361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua View Post
Ask them what they think about the subhuman treatment of women by Islamic nations.
America should mind it's business how Muslim countries run their society. Sticking our noses in so many places bringing "democracy" has brought about this "war on terror" and the hatred of America. The reason given for 9/11 was the US support to Israel in the treatment of the Palestinians.

As for subhuman treatment, Israel doesn't have the exclusive on subhuman treatment towards men, women and children, considering the conditions that Palestinians are made to live under and what is done to them.
 
Old 01-28-2013, 12:28 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,347 posts, read 24,017,828 times
Reputation: 8858
I don't believe that 2% of the population controlled the majority of the land. But I'm willing to keep an open mind, mind posting a reputable source of this? Btw, why is the Negev desert involved in this conversation? The scope is the entire of Palestine.

You have to keep in mind that not all land is owned by people, but rather the gov't. The Negev is the southern half of the mandate. You have to look at it in pieces to understand the demographics. Even by your own numbers how can you explain the exponential growth that occured after 1858. If you don't want to accept that the Jews brought agriculture to the region by purchasing large swaths of lands, then explain what did? Arab growth in the region far outgrew their birthrates. Where did they come from? I've given you enough links so now its up to you to prove that the Arabs were the land owners and created the agriculture themselves. So you should supply the sources.



I have no problem believing you know a lot about the region. That's why you're fun to debate. But you're also dishonest. This is why when I pointed out Jews were forbidden by Israel law, to sell land in israel proper to Arabs you ignored it, then demanded a quotation. Or did that law catch you by surprise?

Show me where its a crime under Israeli Law (not some group of Rabbis) to sell property to Israeli Arabs punishable by death or imprisonment. List the exact law. Israeli Arabs own homes & own lands.

BTW how many Jewish landowners currently live in Gaza??


FYI
Most Private Land is Arab - Inside Israel - News - Israel National News

Keep in mind that Israeli laws have their foundations in British law and not US law
 
Old 01-28-2013, 09:08 AM
 
Location: 9851 Meadowglen Lane, Apt 42, Houston Texas
3,178 posts, read 1,688,757 times
Reputation: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
You have to keep in mind that not all land is owned by people, but rather the gov't. The Negev is the southern half of the mandate. You have to look at it in pieces to understand the demographics. Even by your own numbers how can you explain the exponential growth that occured after 1858. If you don't want to accept that the Jews brought agriculture to the region by purchasing large swaths of lands, then explain what did? Arab growth in the region far outgrew their birthrates. Where did they come from? I've given you enough links so now its up to you to prove that the Arabs were the land owners and created the agriculture themselves. So you should supply the sources.
Why focus on Negev when the topic is the entire of Palestine?

Anyways, you responded like this before. I pressed you to quote my source to support your claim: "Arab numbers grew before and after 1860 at a rate inconsistent with fertility".

Quote:
According to Ottoman statistics studied by Justin McCarthy,[9] the population of Palestine in the early 19th century was 350,000, in 1860 it was 411,000 and in 1900 about 600,000 of which 94% were Arabs.
Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Seems very consistent to me.

Quote:
Show me where its a crime under Israeli Law (not some group of Rabbis) to sell property to Israeli Arabs punishable by death or imprisonment. List the exact law. Israeli Arabs own homes & own lands.
Can Arabs Buy Land in Israel? :: Middle East Quarterly
Walter Lehn, "The Jewish National Fund," Journal of Palestine Studies, vol. 3, no. 4 (1974), p. 88.

Quote:
the [Israeli] state under colour of law effectively prevents any non-Jew from leasing or holding any rights ... to 90 percent of the land in Israel.
I provided this before. What don't you agree with? Isn't under the "colour of law" quite clear? Do you dispute what Lehn wrote, do you think what he wrote is misleading? Instead of shifting the goal posts why don't you address the source first.
 
Old 01-28-2013, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,347 posts, read 24,017,828 times
Reputation: 8858
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombieApocExtraordinaire View Post


Can Arabs Buy Land in Israel? :: Middle East Quarterly
Walter Lehn, "The Jewish National Fund," Journal of Palestine Studies, vol. 3, no. 4 (1974), p. 88.



I provided this before.....
Here I thought we had an understanding to supply reputable un-biased information. But instead you "provide" a quote from a book that is strongly biased against Jews and basically states that Arabs are the only ones that have a claim to all the land. But here I will provide the chapter you are quoting from for others to read:

http://www.caiaweb.org/old-site/files/Lehn-JNF.pdf

The JNF was setup to collect funds and purchase land from the Ottomans for Jews and after WW1 it purchased land from ARABS for Jews. This included land in the Gaza Strip and land in the West Bank (thus after the Armistice these lands were stolen by Arabs for Arab use. No refunds were made back to the Jews who owned this land. But in 1967 the Jews were back and since then are claiming their lands back and removing the squatters).

http://www.jnf.org/about-jnf/history/

Quote:
In 1960, Israel's Knesset adopted a Basic Land Law based on JNF-KKL's principle of national land, which stated that land owned by the Jewish People and maintained by JNF-KKL cannot be sold, but only leased for periods of 49 years at a time.


This covers agricultural land purchased with JNF funds for Jews to use. Why would land purchased for Jews be sold to Arabs?

By 1960 nearly all the Jews were evicted from their lands in nearly every Arab country. Jews were not paid for their lands and could only carry out what they could in a suitcase. If its fair for Arabs to do, then its fair for Jews to do. The Arabs set the basis for it and not the other way around.

So when an Arab in Israel can lease land for its intended use, its a better deal than any Jew can get in all Arab countries.
 
Old 01-28-2013, 12:00 PM
 
7,315 posts, read 5,524,426 times
Reputation: 2837
Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
Obama should be making you pretty sick to your stomach. He supports the Egyptian President, the former leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, who is determined to bring Egypt under Islamic law. Morsi has called Obama a liar and has demanded that Obama release the Blind Sheikh. Obama is using US money to help Morsi's movement. There is currently a second Arab Spring taking place in Egypt and Obama is sending 16 fighter jets and over 200 tanks to Egypt. If things lead to an armed civil war, Morsi can use these weapons provided by the US against their own people, the opposition - who would, once again, be fighting for democracy.

Obama continues the time honored tradition to fund Pakistan. The very heart of terrorists and terrorism. It is the breeding, training, and recruitment country for terrorists. They gave shelter to OBL. They give shelter to the Taliban who hide out in Pakistan. They cross over into Afghantistan to give armed support to the Taliban. There's no secret to all of that, yet the US continues to fund Pakistan with US dollars for one reason: it needs Pakistan to have access to Afghanistan.

NATO voted on troop withdrawal from Afghanistan in 2014 - this was not a decision made by Obama the Great One, but a vote by NATO. The US has the option to withdraw (and admit defeat) or stay on with no assistance. If the US couldn't win the war on terror in Afghanistan with NATO assistance, it sure won't win the war on terror by itself.
I'm neither happy with Obama supporting the Egyptian president, nor with Republicans doing business with, and eating happily and joyfully out of the hands of the Saudis, who are the #1 financial supporters of Jihadism, and happens to be the epicenter of Wahabism, whose tenets are among the most misogynist and heinous ever seen on the planet.
 
Old 01-28-2013, 12:42 PM
 
Location: 9851 Meadowglen Lane, Apt 42, Houston Texas
3,178 posts, read 1,688,757 times
Reputation: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
By 1960 nearly all the Jews were evicted from their lands in nearly every Arab country. Jews were not paid for their lands and could only carry out what they could in a suitcase. If its fair for Arabs to do, then its fair for Jews to do. The Arabs set the basis for it and not the other way around.
Many weren't evicted but chose to come to the Israeli because better opportunities existed for them. The Jewish exodus was over 20 years whereas the Palestinian was over 1-2 years. A similar number (about 800,000) people were exchanged.

But from your post, I get that you don't object to the fact Jewish land can't be sold to Arabs. Rather you keep bringing up equivalence to other Arab countries. Well, we established the Palestinian territories established their law in a retaliatory manner. Then there is the KSA which has some highly peculiar laws (I'm not sure off the top of my head if Jews are explicitly forbidden, but it's very difficult for a Jewish business person to gain access). How about some other examples?
 
Old 01-28-2013, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,347 posts, read 24,017,828 times
Reputation: 8858
Many weren't evicted but chose to come to the Israeli because better opportunities existed for them. The Jewish exodus was over 20 years whereas the Palestinian was over 1-2 years. A similar number (about 800,000) people were exchanged.

Most Jews were either evicted directly or evicted by having all their rights taken away. Most Mizrahi/Sephardi didn't go until after 1948 and nearly none wanted to go before Hitler stuck his nose in the region. Why would people who were happy with their lives for generations and were an integral part of their societies pick up and just move to a desert and start off from nothing? The Arab exodus occurred during a war. So yes their move was over a two year period. And the Arab nations did it quietly to the Jews as to attempt for the UN not to notice it happenning and make it look like a choice to leave

.... Well, we established the Palestinian territories established their law in a retaliatory manner.

A Law against their own people with the threat of death.
 
Old 01-28-2013, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,583,680 times
Reputation: 4140
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2 View Post
So? We have the same arrangement with all the NATO members also. And on the other side, the Warsaw Pact was the same. That's pretty much standard operating procedure for strategic alliances and Israel has been a US ally for over half a century. Why is this news or controversial?
Because it isn't true. We do not have a mutual defense treaty with Israel along the lines of NATO, and we never have.
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