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Old 01-25-2013, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,584,979 times
Reputation: 4140

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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
I have no problem with his statement. If they're an ally, then he's absolutely right.
They aren't an ally. We only act as if they are. They are not a member of NATO or the OAS or ANZUS or in any other mutual defense association with the U.S. except via informal pressure.

 
Old 01-25-2013, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,584,979 times
Reputation: 4140
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
The hell with Rand Paul. What an opportunist clown.
 
Old 01-26-2013, 07:22 AM
 
32,037 posts, read 32,884,791 times
Reputation: 14921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie1946 View Post
"If you are speaking of the USS Liberty that was a mistake and years ago. So it isn't relevant."

Not relevant? Why not? You could say the Holocaust happened years ago and it should be irrelevant.

History is very relevant as it drives what happens today in terms of policy.
Comparing the Holocaust to the USS Liberty incident is silly. The Holocaust was a planned/intentional large scale genocide. The USS Liberty was a one time mistake that has never happened again. (Many unintentional or intentional crimes have statutes of limitations and this was a mistake!) So really the USS Liberty is not relevant if one looks at the large picture of the USA-Israel relationship.
 
Old 01-26-2013, 10:41 AM
 
7,315 posts, read 5,525,923 times
Reputation: 2837
Default As a feminist and a Democrat

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
While I detest Republicans, right wingers, Neo-Cons, and all the rest of the fascists, and make no secret of it, and while I abhor war because it takes life, I also detest the Islamic war on western nations.

I'm a Democrat for Israel, and it freaks the h*ll out of me when I hear Democrats back, defend, and promote the Islamic war, in whatever form that defense might happen to take.

This defense of Islam by Democrats is relatively new. I've been a Democrat for a while and saw it slowly develop, over time, and was rather shocked by it.

For starters, as a feminist, I cannot accept a religion/culture that treats its women as subhuman.

My first direct exposure to that (even before I knew what Islam was) was from an Iranian friend whose best friend had been run over by her father in an "honor killing" for having had sex with her boyfriend. He served no prison time because it was an "honor killing." Soon after, I began to read about "honor killings," and was shocked to find that it is an Islamic thing.

My second direct exposure to that, was seeing how Islamic women walked BEHIND the males, swathed in what appear like shrouds but have various names in each Islamic country.

My third exposure to that was seeing Islamic families in the U.S., with the male looking ever so western, while the women was wrapped like a burrito from head to foot.

There's much more.

No, I cannot condone what Islam or Islamic cultures do.

Since then I've become steeped in the history of Israel, and now understand how the current situation came about, something almost no Democrat or Republican knows or understands.

I defend Israel because it has a right to be there, because Islamic religion and culture treat females subhumanly, and because they are terrorists in our own country.

So, while this dude is a Republican, and I cannot and will not support his ideas ever, it is also true that even a broken clock can be right twice a day. This is one of those times.

That said, Republicans have a smooch-party going on with Saudi Arabia, the country that most heavily finances jihad against the U.S. and Americans, and that makes me sick to my stomach.
 
Old 01-26-2013, 10:45 AM
 
1,949 posts, read 1,205,112 times
Reputation: 677
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
So? How is it different form: An attack on Germany is an attack on the US ?
 
Old 01-26-2013, 10:59 AM
 
361 posts, read 231,180 times
Reputation: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua View Post
While I detest Republicans, right wingers, Neo-Cons, and all the rest of the fascists, and make no secret of it, and while I abhor war because it takes life, I also detest the Islamic war on western nations.

I'm a Democrat for Israel, and it freaks the h*ll out of me when I hear Democrats back, defend, and promote the Islamic war, in whatever form that defense might happen to take.

This defense of Islam by Democrats is relatively new. I've been a Democrat for a while and saw it slowly develop, over time, and was rather shocked by it.

For starters, as a feminist, I cannot accept a religion/culture that treats its women as subhuman.

My first direct exposure to that (even before I knew what Islam was) was from an Iranian friend whose best friend had been run over by her father in an "honor killing" for having had sex with her boyfriend. He served no prison time because it was an "honor killing." Soon after, I began to read about "honor killings," and was shocked to find that it is an Islamic thing.

My second direct exposure to that, was seeing how Islamic women walked BEHIND the males, swathed in what appear like shrouds but have various names in each Islamic country.

My third exposure to that was seeing Islamic families in the U.S., with the male looking ever so western, while the women was wrapped like a burrito from head to foot.

There's much more.

No, I cannot condone what Islam or Islamic cultures do.

Since then I've become steeped in the history of Israel, and now understand how the current situation came about, something almost no Democrat or Republican knows or understands.

I defend Israel because it has a right to be there, because Islamic religion and culture treat females subhumanly, and because they are terrorists in our own country.

So, while this dude is a Republican, and I cannot and will not support his ideas ever, it is also true that even a broken clock can be right twice a day. This is one of those times.

That said, Republicans have a smooch-party going on with Saudi Arabia, the country that most heavily finances jihad against the U.S. and Americans, and that makes me sick to my stomach.
Amazing post. Im an Idf vet and it makes me happy to see people who understand what we are up against. I can tell you view the issue from a common sense precpective and have a decent understanding of the histroy. I can agree that the very pro israel right wing and anti israel left wing both generally do not actually know exactly what they are talking about. Why do you think there is a growing trend of ant Israeli views from democrats? Why don't more democats realize that aspects of the islamic culture are literallt the opposite of everything they stand for?
 
Old 01-26-2013, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Ville de La Nouvelle-Orléans, Louisiana(504)
195 posts, read 386,606 times
Reputation: 96
I say an attack on Israel is an an attack on Israel. It has nothing to do with us. They have an army,weapons and a nuclear arsenal.
 
Old 01-26-2013, 11:45 AM
 
7,315 posts, read 5,525,923 times
Reputation: 2837
Quote:
Originally Posted by 718native View Post
Amazing post. Im an Idf vet and it makes me happy to see people who understand what we are up against. I can tell you view the issue from a common sense precpective and have a decent understanding of the histroy. I can agree that the very pro israel right wing and anti israel left wing both generally do not actually know exactly what they are talking about. Why do you think there is a growing trend of ant Israeli views from democrats? Why don't more democats realize that aspects of the islamic culture are literallt the opposite of everything they stand for?
Thanks so much. You're right. Neither the right nor the left understand what's really involved, or what the history is behind this Middle East issue, and they should be ashamed of themselves. There's tremendous ignorance.

I think the Democrats (of which I am one) are torn for various reasons:

1) The Repukes are pro-war and Democrats generally aren't. Neither am I for war, but Islamic people are frikkin' nuts, and I'm not exaggerating, and those that aren't will side with those who are "just because."

2) The Repukes are too easy at picking scapegoats. It's their "thing" to pick scapegoats. They did it with the gays, they did it with black people, they have done it through history. The minute they "scapegoated" the Islamic religious and cultures, BAM! Out came the Democrats with a knee-jerk reaction without stopping to learn the history behind all this, and without hesitating a moment to realize how damaging they are to women. They forgot all about women, feminism, etc. I detest the scapegoating of the right wing, but this is a situation in which Democrats need to open their eyes and ****. This is no time to be "elegant" about giving a voice to a$$holes who are decimating women and who feel the entirety of the west is a threat that must be conquered and demolished.

3) The Islamic Jihadists, with the aid of the Saudis, have waged an excellent propaganda war. Joseph Goebbels would've been proud! They've actually gotten people to feel sorry for them (what a frikkin' joke), completely ignoring that the people they feel sorry for are also wanting their hide for being western. Further, Jihadists, Saudis, etc. find Democrats to be "infidels" beyond their wildest dreams, and hate them far more than they hate Republicans. They find them despicable for supporting gays, they abhor them for wanting women to have equal rights, and they just HATE them for their openness and willingness to accept people.

And of course, I have absolutely nothing good to say about Republicans, but that's what I think in a nutshell about why Democrats jumped on this "let's defend the Jihadists and Islam" b*llsh*t.

There's one h*ll of a lot of ignorance around.
 
Old 01-26-2013, 12:13 PM
 
361 posts, read 231,180 times
Reputation: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua View Post
Thanks so much. You're right. Neither the right nor the left understand what's really involved, or what the history is behind this Middle East issue, and they should be ashamed of themselves. There's tremendous ignorance.

I think the Democrats (of which I am one) are torn for various reasons:

1) The Repukes are pro-war and Democrats generally aren't. Neither am I for war, but Islamic people are frikkin' nuts, and I'm not exaggerating, and those that aren't will side with those who are "just because."

2) The Repukes are too easy at picking scapegoats. It's their "thing" to pick scapegoats. They did it with the gays, they did it with black people, they have done it through history. The minute they "scapegoated" the Islamic religious and cultures, BAM! Out came the Democrats with a knee-jerk reaction without stopping to learn the history behind all this, and without hesitating a moment to realize how damaging they are to women. They forgot all about women, feminism, etc. I detest the scapegoating of the right wing, but this is a situation in which Democrats need to open their eyes and ****. This is no time to be "elegant" about giving a voice to a$$holes who are decimating women and who feel the entirety of the west is a threat that must be conquered and demolished.

3) The Islamic Jihadists, with the aid of the Saudis, have waged an excellent propaganda war. Joseph Goebbels would've been proud! They've actually gotten people to feel sorry for them (what a frikkin' joke), completely ignoring that the people they feel sorry for are also wanting their hide for being western. Further, Jihadists, Saudis, etc. find Democrats to be "infidels" beyond their wildest dreams, and hate them far more than they hate Republicans. They find them despicable for supporting gays, they abhor them for wanting women to have equal rights, and they just HATE them for their openness and willingness to accept people.

And of course, I have absolutely nothing good to say about Republicans, but that's what I think in a nutshell about why Democrats jumped on this "let's defend the Jihadists and Islam" b*llsh*t.

There's one h*ll of a lot of ignorance around.
I agree with much of what you just said. Democrat's have a natural reaction to want to protect victims. In this case many of them didn't bother to to the research to realize that these are not victims that need to be protected. Also wha tou wrote about brainwashing is spot on. They understand how we as westerners think and understand how to invoke our sympathies. It truly is amazing how they have made us all feel sorry for them. I honestly feel the more horrible things they do the more we feel bad for them.
 
Old 01-26-2013, 12:15 PM
 
7,315 posts, read 5,525,923 times
Reputation: 2837
Quote:
Originally Posted by 718native View Post
I agree with much of what you just said. Democrat's have a natural reaction to want to protect victims. In this case many of them didn't bother to to the research to realize that these are not victims that need to be protected. Also wha tou wrote about brainwashing is spot on. They understand how we as westerners think and understand how to invoke our sympathies. It truly is amazing how they have made us all feel sorry for them. I honestly feel the more horrible things they do the more we feel bad for them.
We have a huge problem on our hands, don't we?
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