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Old 01-29-2013, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Ohio
15,125 posts, read 13,377,637 times
Reputation: 20559

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
I've already stated that I don't believe the federal government should be involved at all ... I know that's not the answer you want to hear ... but that's the one you're going to get!

You see, I know that you know that I know that this isn't an issue of "banning" abortions ... this is about the federal government overriding state government on the issue of abortion and the laws passed by states which vary from state to state. The "Pro-Abortion" crowd wants the federal government to impose federal law, replacing state laws that the left find too restrictive on their constitutional right to kill babies in masse.

So, no I cannot tell you the date in which I decided to stop beating my wife, because I never did nor ever would beat her.

I would say, nice try, but it really was pretty transparent.
Sorry, I don't see abortion rights as a state issue, anymore than I see slavery as a state issue.

I do not want state government, or any government, telling me I have to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. It is not government's place to make that decision for any woman. The Supreme Court got it right.

And........ if it was left up to the states, let's not pretend that if your state decided not to ban abortion that you would be fine with it, hmmm?
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:23 PM
 
13,793 posts, read 14,609,604 times
Reputation: 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
Sorry, I don't see abortion rights as a state issue, anymore than I see slavery as a state issue.

I do not want state government, or any government, telling me I have to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. It is not government's place to make that decision for any woman. The Supreme Court got it right.

And........ if it was left up to the states, let's not pretend that if your state decided not to ban abortion that you would be fine with it, hmmm?

women should also not have to travel out of state to get medical care.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:00 PM
 
9,066 posts, read 5,597,399 times
Reputation: 3824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill61 View Post
What's depraved is you thinking you have a right to infringe upon my FREEDOM.

This is the United States of America, not the Taliban's Afghanistan.
Killing for convenience has never been a freedom enjoyed in the United States. It's been practiced frequently and honed to a fine art, but never actually legal, nor a right, and certainly never documented as a "freedom" enjoyed by the commoner. Such killing for convenience has mostly been reserved for ... you know who.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill61 View Post
I feel for your despair over this issue. But as an actual, living, breathing, sentient human being, my right to life trumps all else. Full Stop.
Forgive me if I find your empathy for my "despair", gratuitous and insincere. But I must tell you, whatever despair I may experience is on your behalf .. my despair is for you, and the delusions you suffer that has led you to believe that your right to life gives you dominion over the life and death of others. Only a psychopathy would allow a person to believe that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill61 View Post
I am both legally and morally allowed to protect myself my body, my actual life from potential harm. Even from other already living, breathing, fully sentient human beings.

You cannot support a person's right to self defense against a living human being and deny them the right to self defense against a potential human being just because you think it might be cute and cuddly.
Are we talking about babies or puppies here? It seems you have the two confused. My opposition to killing them has nothing whatsoever to do with cute and cuddly, and it's disturbing that you'd even say that. It really does speak to your overall mentality, and the message isn't very cute and cuddly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill61 View Post
Every single solitary pregnancy carries dozens of risks to every aspect of a woman's life, up to and including death. Even an otherwise healthy and normal pregnancy can cause a woman to die ... without warning. Heart attack, stroke, amniotic fluid embolism.

When my life is in danger and it is always in danger during any pregnancy I have a legal and moral right to do whatever it takes to protect myself, up to and including killing another human being.
You've been so brainwashed, I'm sure this is hopeless, because you should already know this ... but you're in much greater risk driving to work, than you are being pregnant. Hell, your odds of being struck by lightening isn't much less, and with modern medical technology, the risk to your life by giving birth is quite remote ... so much so, that I promise you, no jury would consider your fear reasonable and justifiable self defense, I can assure you of that.

The reality is, abortion poses a 4 fold greater risk to your health than carrying a pregnancy to term .. read and educate yourself:

Abortion Four Times Deadlier Than Childbirth | After Abortion

(This is the published study pdf)
http://www.afterabortion.org/pdf/Dea...rtionJCHLP.pdf

Now whether you believe that data or not ... other well documented data across numerous studies show not much greater risks in child birth and abortion procedures. Both have minimal risks at the time, with abortion leading to many more long term psychological and physical difficulties in the future. So if your fear is losing your life .. have the baby ... not the abortion. But we know this really isn't what's behind this ... your fear is the responsibility and the implications of that. Yes ... we see through the smokescreen.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:19 PM
 
9,066 posts, read 5,597,399 times
Reputation: 3824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
Sorry, I don't see abortion rights as a state issue, anymore than I see slavery as a state issue.

I do not want state government, or any government, telling me I have to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. It is not government's place to make that decision for any woman. The Supreme Court got it right.

And........ if it was left up to the states, let's not pretend that if your state decided not to ban abortion that you would be fine with it, hmmm?
Well if that don't beat all!! You don't believe in slavery aye? What is your particular problem with it? Is it a moral issue? Do you feel that one person should not be the property of another person? Do you believe that each human being has equal rights, and that no person can morally or legally own another person??

Well, some of us actually agree with you! And the logical carryover which you conveniently allow your sense of morality to magically experience a form of amnesia, would suggest that that baby in your belly is not your "property" to do with as you see fit, either! It's a living being too, and it has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness just as much as you do! Your born children are not your "property" to do with as you see fit to do, including terminating their life ... so why would you think they were ever your property to do that to? You do not have a moral right to do anything to that unborn child than you can legally do to the born child.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Ohio
15,125 posts, read 13,377,637 times
Reputation: 20559
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Killing for convenience has never been a freedom enjoyed in the United States. It's been practiced frequently and honed to a fine art, but never actually legal, nor a right, and certainly never documented as a "freedom" enjoyed by the commoner. Such killing for convenience has mostly been reserved for ... you know who.
I will say it again. Pregnancy is hardly a mere "inconvenience".

An inconvenience is forgetting to pick up a loaf of bread on your way home from work.

A woman cannot go about her day to day life as if nothing is happening.

It effects her health. It causes everything from discomfort to exteme pain, torn nerves, torn flesh. It can damage the pelvic floor and cause incontinence, especially in later life. It can bring about diabetes, hypertension, blood clots, strokes and a myriad of other serious health issues....even death.

It effects her job and her finances.....lost work, lost wages.....right up to and including possible job loss. During a difficult pregancy she can miss literally months of work. And....it is the low income jobs that do not provide paid sick leave.....or sick leave at all......you are quite simply out of a job and out of a paycheck if you cannot work. Even in a "good" job with sick leave benenfits.....many times those benefits are only half of your normal wage. And let's not forget the medical expenses incurred.....even with good insurance you have substantial co-pays.

All of these hardships are mulitplied when it is a pregnancy you never wanted in the first place.

It is one thing to make sacrifices for something you want, quite another to be forced to make sacrifices for something you do not want.

You cannot force a woman to go for prenatal checkups or to buy prenatal vitamins, you cannot force a woman to eat right and avoid things like caffeine, alcohol and cigarettes for nine months.....quite simply, you cannot force a woman to care.....especially about something she doesn't want.

And please....having an abortion doesn't even come close to causing the financial and physical pain endured by carrying a pregnancy to term. And....a woman is ten times more likely to die during childbirth than from having a safe, legal abortion.

It is up to me and only me to decide which risks I wish to take with MY life.....not you....not the government.

Last edited by Annie53; 01-29-2013 at 11:24 PM..
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Ohio
15,125 posts, read 13,377,637 times
Reputation: 20559
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Well if that don't beat all!! You don't believe in slavery aye? What is your particular problem with it? Is it a moral issue? Do you feel that one person should not be the property of another person? Do you believe that each human being has equal rights, and that no person can morally or legally own another person??

Well, some of us actually agree with you! And the logical carryover which you conveniently allow your sense of morality to magically experience a form of amnesia, would suggest that that baby in your belly is not your "property" to do with as you see fit, either! It's a living being too, and it has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness just as much as you do! Your born children are not your "property" to do with as you see fit to do, including terminating their life ... so why would you think they were ever your property to do that to? You do not have a moral right to do anything to that unborn child than you can legally do to the born child.
Simple answer.....a fetus the size of a grape is not a person, is not a child, is not a baby and it has no rights.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:37 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
14,817 posts, read 13,280,963 times
Reputation: 4496
Quote:
Originally Posted by california-jewel View Post
I agree with you. If people give the goverment the empowerment of making decisions a person should make for themselves, we are in trouble.

The government says we should not do this, but can do that, before we know it, the governemnt will be making decisons for every facet of our lives, do we really want this. GIVE them the power for this today, then tomorrow then what.

We sure as hell, have no say so in the way political figures run their own lives, but they do with ours. And anyways, they can have D after their name or a R, they are still all hypocrites, do as they say, not as they do.
True. And if we grant power to the government to ban abortion, what's to stop the government to change its mind and decide to require women to get abortions under some circumstances?
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:44 PM
 
Location: 60630
12,226 posts, read 17,942,320 times
Reputation: 11668
Is morning after pill also murder. I Mean..egg has not been fertilised yet.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:21 AM
 
Location: a nation with hope
13,153 posts, read 17,388,597 times
Reputation: 5025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
I will say it again. Pregnancy is hardly a mere "inconvenience".

An inconvenience is forgetting to pick up a loaf of bread on your way home from work.

A woman cannot go about her day to day life as if nothing is happening.

It effects her health. It causes everything from discomfort to exteme pain, torn nerves, torn flesh. It can damage the pelvic floor and cause incontinence, especially in later life. It can bring about diabetes, hypertension, blood clots, strokes and a myriad of other serious health issues....even death.

It effects her job and her finances.....lost work, lost wages.....right up to and including possible job loss. During a difficult pregancy she can miss literally months of work. And....it is the low income jobs that do not provide paid sick leave.....or sick leave at all......you are quite simply out of a job and out of a paycheck if you cannot work. Even in a "good" job with sick leave benenfits.....many times those benefits are only half of your normal wage. And let's not forget the medical expenses incurred.....even with good insurance you have substantial co-pays.

All of these hardships are mulitplied when it is a pregnancy you never wanted in the first place.

It is one thing to make sacrifices for something you want, quite another to be forced to make sacrifices for something you do not want.

You cannot force a woman to go for prenatal checkups or to buy prenatal vitamins, you cannot force a woman to eat right and avoid things like caffeine, alcohol and cigarettes for nine months.....quite simply, you cannot force a woman to care.....especially about something she doesn't want.

And please....having an abortion doesn't even come close to causing the financial and physical pain endured by carrying a pregnancy to term. And....a woman is ten times more likely to die during childbirth than from having a safe, legal abortion.

It is up to me and only me to decide which risks I wish to take with MY life.....not you....not the government.
What unbelievable selfishness and rationalization.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:50 AM
 
9,502 posts, read 4,851,983 times
Reputation: 3863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
Simple answer.....a fetus the size of a grape is not a person, is not a child, is not a baby and it has no rights.
The same is true at 22 weeks when the fetus is maybe a foot long and weighs around a pound. Then, in 2-weeks when the fetus is slightly longer and heavier, the vaginal overlords step in with their oppressive control over the woman's body, choice, freedom, future.
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