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Old 01-25-2013, 01:03 PM
 
10,543 posts, read 11,983,230 times
Reputation: 2798

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostInHouston View Post
Ok, while part of a human, a fertilized egg is living as well... but it has no viability on its own, like skin.


At conception, the DNA is distinct from mother and father and it is a living organism with it's own genetic identify. Your skin, blood, hair etc. is not.

If you took care of your skin and put lotion etc. on it and stayed out of the sun, used natural products in your hair and didn't damage it with a hair dryer, and did whatever it is you do to nails, in two years none of those things would be looking at you, talking to you, walking and wouldn't go on to school.

If you puposely scraped the skin to a person different from yourself without their consent, you could be charged with a crime.

Last edited by Rggr; 01-25-2013 at 01:14 PM..
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,946 posts, read 15,004,539 times
Reputation: 4481
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne View Post
That is exactly the crux of this issue ---- WHEN is this entity a human life worthy of protection under the law?
Agreed. Pro-lifers may find themselves with more secular allies if they went at it from that angle rather than a religious one.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Clear Lake Area
2,076 posts, read 3,906,260 times
Reputation: 1966
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwm1964 View Post
How pretty.
You wax all poetic here quoting Shakespeare, yet I believe apply the metaphor awkwardly at best and incorrectly at worst. You imply a rose is always intrinsically a rose, yet a "person" changes from a non-human life organism to a human upon birth.
I disagree, I believe my metaphor was very appropriate. I was using it to show that while the desire to be pregnant often dictates how a mother refers to her fertilized egg (baby versus mistake) it does not change what it is, i.e. a fertilized egg. Your interpretation of the intrinsic nature of a fertilized egg is flawed, after all, would you say a rose seed smells as sweet as a rose?
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:03 PM
 
2,931 posts, read 1,907,891 times
Reputation: 1023
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Wrong.


There's life even before a heart starts beating. But that's not the question.

The question is whether or not there is a human being.

So,...I'm wrong,...but, you don't know definitively.

That's quite revealing.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:07 PM
 
589 posts, read 863,795 times
Reputation: 870
Another problem and a sign of a bad law is that it's unenforceable. If a woman gets pregnant and aborts the pregnancy herself, or with help, privately, then who would be the wiser? We can rattle on all day about how wrong it may or may not be, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation, and neither does a law. Only education solves this problem, so lets get that figured out... a lot of other problems in our society, including this one, will magically go away if we do. But no one wants to do that, we just want to point fingers and make laws. I think we can all agree, that strategy is not working out so well.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Austin
29,518 posts, read 16,417,568 times
Reputation: 8061
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Draper View Post
The question isn't when life begins, it's when human life beings

A fertizlied egg is not a human
When does it become human? And how did you decide that?
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Barrington
45,595 posts, read 33,860,209 times
Reputation: 15166
Quote:
Originally Posted by personwhoisaperson View Post

When I argue against abortion, or against "The War on Women" I usually take a religious pov.

I met a man last week who is one of the smartest man I have ever met in my life. He explained to me that when I am arguing abortion with people who do not take religion into account, I shouldn't use religion as a basis for my beliefs, even if it is the basis of my beliefs. I should use logic.

So logically speaking, you should .....
Have you asked yourself why you argue about abortion with anonymous strangers? Have you persuaded anyone is was pro choice to change their mind?

One you started with "you should"....I stopped reading.

Perhaps a better approach might be " I will be an example and adopt 5 babies, regardless of their medical situations, who otherwise would have been aborted".
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Austin
29,518 posts, read 16,417,568 times
Reputation: 8061
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikett View Post
.... Being alive is taken to mean a life standing on it's own - not tied to another human being for life support. That's the difference.

If that's the criteria then we should be able to kill small children for convenience. They are certainly not able to live on their own without being tied to other humans for life support. Left alone, small children would all die.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:21 PM
 
13,752 posts, read 14,582,956 times
Reputation: 11455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
If that's the criteria then we should be able to kill small children for convenience. They are certainly not able to live on their own without being tied to other humans for life support. Left alone, small children would all die.

huge difference between children already born and a developing fetus in a womb. a child born can be raised, feed by anyone who wants to do the job. not so with a fetus in a womb, that is an individual job, done with by a singular woman. no woman should have to maintain a pregnancy, go into labor and birth a child if she does not want to.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 30,647,409 times
Reputation: 14582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Draper View Post
The question isn't when life begins, it's when human life beings

A fertizlied egg is not a human
If it's not human what species of life is it?

I have news for you. EVERY human being started as a zygote. THAT is the beginning of a particular person. Before conception no person exists. After conception one does. Yes it's in a very immature form but all that is necessary from conception on is nutrition, oxygen and time.
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