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Old 01-25-2013, 02:10 PM
 
Location: In your head, rent free
14,150 posts, read 7,652,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Treason is an attempt to "overcome" the constitution, when you hate what it brings to you.
Nobody is talking about overcoming the constitution except for those who support the idea of the President sidestepping it and infringing on the rights of American citizens.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,851,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
And if a leader begins to defy his oath to the constitution and became tyrannical 1 year into a 4 year term?
Present a situation, real or otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
Nobody is talking about overcoming the constitution except for those who support the idea of the President sidestepping it and infringing on the rights of American citizens.
Considering that people tend to promote their own ideas of constitution, it isn't a far fetched idea to say that is the point.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
2,223 posts, read 1,589,616 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Treason is an attempt to "overcome" the constitution, when you hate what it brings to you.
That's one definition.

I think another is Treason is the tendency of elected officials to use their power and influence to circumvent the constitution.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,851,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwm1964 View Post
That's one definition.

I think another is Treason is the tendency of elected officials to use their power and influence to circumvent the constitution.
I prefer arguments with substance. Got one?
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
2,223 posts, read 1,589,616 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
I prefer arguments with substance. Got one?
Yes, I posted it.
I'm not surprised you didn't understand it given your hollow retort.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:22 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 32,041,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldawg82 View Post
The reality usually crushes the ideology, doesn't it? That was the Federal gov's first test from within. But, the gov wasn't conducting themselves unconstitutionally.
Not really, the ideology as you put it is that we have a three triparte government in which each branch has the duty and the authority to keep the one or the other in check. In reality, with some bumps and starts, for over 200 years both reality and ideology has worked as the Framers designed it to work, because the Framers while zealous in there protections of individual liberty were not so naive to fear the zealousness of the mob. They were statist, not anarchist.

The problem only arises when a group of citizens take it upon themselves to act in an extra-governmental manner and assuming that they, the mob, are more acquitted at determining what is constitutional and what isn't, usual with dire consequences for themselves and the nation.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:26 PM
 
13,180 posts, read 13,063,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmjv View Post
One of the most popular claims for why we have the 2nd amendment is also probably the most insane. Governments do not put in their constitutions provisions allowing the people to commit treason. Overthrowing the government is not a constitutional right.
Advocating for the overthrow of the US government does not meet the legal definition of treason, and it's legal under Brandenburg v Ohio

Criminalizing free speech - Salon.com
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:33 PM
 
Location: 15 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
25,254 posts, read 13,998,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmjv View Post
One of the most popular claims for why we have the 2nd amendment is also probably the most insane. Governments do not put in their constitutions provisions allowing the people to commit treason. Overthrowing the government is not a constitutional right.
treason/ freedom fighting.....all depends on which side you are on

george washington as treasonous/terrorist against king george.....george washington was also a freedom fighter for us who choise to overthrow the TREASONOUS government of endgland and its king
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Austin
29,518 posts, read 16,439,511 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmjv View Post
One of the most popular claims for why we have the 2nd amendment is also probably the most insane. Governments do not put in their constitutions provisions allowing the people to commit treason. Overthrowing the government is not a constitutional right.
I don't know anybody who says it is.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:33 PM
 
13,180 posts, read 13,063,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmjv View Post
Then explain to us why the constitution itself says that treason is a crime.

You might have a moral right to overthrow the government if it goes to tyranny. You do not have a legal right to do so.
So what? At some point, by reason of unconstitutional acts, the government becomes illegitimate.

Their laws are meaningless. The act of being guilty of treason by an illegitimate government is just that.

Did Hitler have a legal case against those who tried to kill him? Only in the eyes of his small band of die hard loyalists.
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