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Old 01-26-2013, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,390 posts, read 20,021,539 times
Reputation: 8319

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles22 View Post
I think they should have tried integrating the NFL or maybe college track and field before dropping this on the military.









You wouldn't want to ruin football, would you?
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,390 posts, read 20,021,539 times
Reputation: 8319
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyJude514 View Post
Agreed. Not every woman can cut it, but then, not every man can, either. I know a woman who is a member of the fire department in a major city, and also plays in a full tackle woman's football league. She is a real powerhouse. I challenge anyone to tell her she is not capable of serving in a combat unit.

For women who want to make the military their career, without combat credentials they are often passed over for promotions. Why not allow those women who want to serve and who are capable the opportunity?


Any comment on the article you obviously didn't read?
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:14 PM
 
1,699 posts, read 3,536,626 times
Reputation: 3905
The author seems largely influenced by her own unique medical issues. Based on her personal experience, she attempts make a case that womens' bodies don't hold up as well as mens' over time. Weird that she'd jump to that conclusion. She even states "There is a drastic shortage of historical data on female attrition or medical ailments of women who have executed sustained combat operations" then goes on to offer vaguely related data and calls it a day. I guess I can go into the reasons why I don't think the entry level school data will bear out to reflect future women-in-combat data, but hopefully you can just figure it out without me spending the time on it. Her main argument against women in the Marine infantry is that women don't have the longevity men do. I guess we'll see about that
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:19 PM
 
Location: So Cal
40,210 posts, read 39,738,202 times
Reputation: 41673
This is a lame ass thread.... we're created equal in the sense that we should all be given the same basic access to freedom and liberty all of that jazz....

The opportunities to fail/excel......... rights and privileges should all be equal....
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:33 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
14,651 posts, read 10,552,521 times
Reputation: 19791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles22 View Post
I think they should have tried integrating the NFL or maybe college track and field before dropping this on the military.
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
You wouldn't want to ruin football, would you?
No indeed! It is far more important to not ruin football than our nation's military.
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:46 PM
 
2,633 posts, read 3,055,228 times
Reputation: 1675
That Captain is a poor excuse for a leader. If one of my junior officers came to me as said "Sir, I don't think I can do x", I would do everything I could to make sure that person would be returned to civilian life ASAP. There is no room in the military for whiners. I'd have much more respect for her if she would get off her a$$ and at least try to be a company commander. If she couldn't hack it, I'd at least respect her for trying.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,390 posts, read 20,021,539 times
Reputation: 8319
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9coach View Post
The author seems largely influenced by her own unique medical issues. Based on her personal experience, she attempts make a case that womens' bodies don't hold up as well as mens' over time. Weird that she'd jump to that conclusion. She even states "There is a drastic shortage of historical data on female attrition or medical ailments of women who have executed sustained combat operations" then goes on to offer vaguely related data and calls it a day. I guess I can go into the reasons why I don't think the entry level school data will bear out to reflect future women-in-combat data, but hopefully you can just figure it out without me spending the time on it. Her main argument against women in the Marine infantry is that women don't have the longevity men do. I guess we'll see about that

She had a number of issues with placing females in 03 MOS's.


"As a combat-experienced Marine officer, and a female, I am here to tell you that we are not all created equal, and attempting to place females in the infantry will not improve the Marine Corps as the Nationís force-in-readiness or improve our national security."


"I certainly applaud and appreciate DACOWITSí mission; however, as it pertains to the issue of women in the infantry, itís very surprising to see that none of the committee members are on active duty or have any recent combat or relevant operational experience relating to the issue they are attempting to change."


"Of candidates who were dropped from training because they were injured or not physically qualified, females were breaking at a much higher rate than males, 14 percent versus 4 percent. The same trends were seen at TBS in 2011; the attrition rate for females was 13 percent versus 5 percent for males, and 5 percent of females were found not physically qualified compared with 1 percent of males. Further, both of these training venues have physical fitness standards that are easier for females; at IOC there is one standard regardless of gender."





"she attempts make a case that womens' bodies don't hold up as well as mens' over time. Weird that she'd jump to that conclusion."


Why would you expect women's bodies to hold up as well as men's in sustained combat when they don't hold up nearly as well in training, and this even when the standards are easier for females?
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:49 PM
 
7,371 posts, read 4,622,191 times
Reputation: 3133
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJockey View Post
We should ALL be given the same opportunity to try though. If a woman cannot keep up, she should not be in combat JUST like a man who can't keep up.

However, as a woman who is over 6' tall and has on several occasions lugged an 80lb backpack over several miles, I can confidently say I'm far mor qualified for service than my 5'5 110 lb male friend who can barely lug his drumset around without help
Why should I be denied the opportunity to try when he wouldn't? Having a vagina does not make me inferior.
Because the combat infantry exist to win wars, not to provide you with opportunity. So this is about you being an effective soldier, not about you getting opportunities.

Therefore if you are willing to meet the exact same standards that men do, go through the exact same training that men do, and serve under the exact same conditions that men do then sure you should be allowed to join provided that your presence does not hamper unit cohesion.

See, it's about more than just the entrance qualifications. It's about actually going through a tour of duty as an infantry soldier without hindering your squadmates. That means not expecting any special treatment. Because you can make a base into a woman friendly work environment for female support troops but you can't make the field woman friendly. It is what it is.

But if you can hack it, I'll fully support you going for it.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,390 posts, read 20,021,539 times
Reputation: 8319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke_Jaguar4 View Post
That Captain is a poor excuse for a leader. If one of my junior officers came to me as said "Sir, I don't think I can do x", I would do everything I could to make sure that person would be returned to civilian life ASAP. There is no room in the military for whiners. I'd have much more respect for her if she would get off her a$$ and at least try to be a company commander. If she couldn't hack it, I'd at least respect her for trying.

Rather be lied to?

A service member who isn't honest cannot be trusted with responsibility.

There is no honor is *** ****ing the military and the nation to advance a political agenda.

At the end of the day, there is no reason to make this change except political pandering.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:19 PM
 
1,831 posts, read 2,123,565 times
Reputation: 2602
Today I attended a public event that attracted thousands. I usually avoid crowds so today was a change. My generic observation of the fair sex was that women are bigger, larger, taller, stronger, and louder than ever.
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