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Old 01-28-2013, 08:18 AM
 
78,339 posts, read 60,527,398 times
Reputation: 49626

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseyt719 View Post
Thank you for telling me this without condescending me. I do like to learn facts.

That's amazing that you cannot buy or sell them there yet so much violence with them occurs. It seems that removing the availability doesn't remove the access, nor the violence. Kind of like forbidding something, one will fight harder to get it.
Well, that's not really the whole story.

Up until 2010 you could have a gun if you got a permit....but they wouldn't issue permits. So anyone telling you there wasn't a gun ban is technically correct but it's perhaps not completely accurate.

Starting in 2010 due to it being found unconstitutional....Chicago has shifted gears and allows ownership but put a lot of licensing, fees, mandatory training course etc. in place which is basically meant to function like the old poll taxes that were used to keep blacks, women etc. from voting.

Chicago, through public housing design and selective police enforcement manages to create a city that is extremely safe in the nice areas and a complete craphole in other places. The murder rate per 100,000 in places like Lincoln Park and Near north is about 1. On the west and south sides in places like Austin the murder rate is more like 35-40 per 100,000.

80% of Chicago's murders are gang and drug related....so um....good luck disarming the gang bangers that are already smuggling vast quantities of drugs in from south and central america.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,161,783 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Well, that's not really the whole story.

Up until 2010 you could have a gun if you got a permit....but they wouldn't issue permits. So anyone telling you there wasn't a gun ban is technically correct but it's perhaps not completely accurate.

Starting in 2010 due to it being found unconstitutional....Chicago has shifted gears and allows ownership but put a lot of licensing, fees, mandatory training course etc. in place which is basically meant to function like the old poll taxes that were used to keep blacks, women etc. from voting.

Chicago, through public housing design and selective police enforcement manages to create a city that is extremely safe in the nice areas and a complete craphole in other places. The murder rate per 100,000 in places like Lincoln Park and Near north is about 1. On the west and south sides in places like Austin the murder rate is more like 35-40 per 100,000.

80% of Chicago's murders are gang and drug related....so um....good luck disarming the gang bangers that are already smuggling vast quantities of drugs in from south and central america.
That is the biggest issue I have with Chicago is the lack of interest in all of the city, just the nice parts.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:27 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,766 posts, read 40,152,606 times
Reputation: 18084
Quote:
Originally Posted by SloRoller View Post
Most likely a lack of M-O-N-E-Y.
No. Most likely it was because she didn't put any effort into having a decent job. Just because someone is a single parent, doesn't mean that they don't have the time or ability to get better job skills. She also failed at being a good parent. She obviously had plenty of time to keep getting pregnant...
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:42 AM
 
Location: The Beautiful Pocono Mountains
5,450 posts, read 8,759,049 times
Reputation: 3002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Well, that's not really the whole story.

Up until 2010 you could have a gun if you got a permit....but they wouldn't issue permits. So anyone telling you there wasn't a gun ban is technically correct but it's perhaps not completely accurate.

Starting in 2010 due to it being found unconstitutional....Chicago has shifted gears and allows ownership but put a lot of licensing, fees, mandatory training course etc. in place which is basically meant to function like the old poll taxes that were used to keep blacks, women etc. from voting.

Chicago, through public housing design and selective police enforcement manages to create a city that is extremely safe in the nice areas and a complete craphole in other places. The murder rate per 100,000 in places like Lincoln Park and Near north is about 1. On the west and south sides in places like Austin the murder rate is more like 35-40 per 100,000.

80% of Chicago's murders are gang and drug related....so um....good luck disarming the gang bangers that are already smuggling vast quantities of drugs in from south and central america.
Wow! That's a lot of behind the fence regulation going on. What is it all really doing though? Sounds like keeping honest people honest and that's about it.

Thanks for the info.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:30 AM
 
72,976 posts, read 62,554,457 times
Reputation: 21872
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
True. I actually realize this -- there are people who have "disappeared" out of El Paso and founded murdered and corpse dumped in some Juarez street. That was the fate of one of my former neighbors -- he did not go to Juarez on his own accord but that's where he ended up.

I don't believe that restrictive gun laws are working because prohibition doesn't work. You can buy a Chinese made weapon now at a gun show or later from a smuggler -- as easily as you can buy meth.

Poverty isn't the problem because the majority of poor people are not killers. Race also isn't the issue because many of the same race are the hardest workers and most decent people you could find.

I believe lack of jobs and work ethic are a problem -- these people have nothing really to live for, every day is the same as the day before, they're bored, their youth are especially bored.

What's worse is not a single politicial leader wants to address the problems. It's easier to just warehouse these people on government handouts because getting them working and productive so they can have real futures isn't a goal of those in charge. Factory jobs are long gone -- no one intends to bring them back, yet factory jobs were what got a lot of people into the middle class.
And another thing to consider as well is that El Paso is also close to New Mexico. Some of its suburbs are in New Mexico, so someone could turn up there.

Not only could you get a gun at a gun show, but theft could be another way. As for Chicago, that city might have strict gun laws, but Gary, in Indiana, is nearby. Guns could be trafficked through there. Illinois also borders Kentucky, such guns could come up through there.

I would say this. Poverty isn't really a sole cause, but more something that comes with not being able to get a job. Most poor people don't kill each other. An important question is this. Why does killing and crime happen more in poor areas? Not having something to live for often comes with not having a job. Losing hope makes many people turn violent. Some people turn violent because of desperation. Anger, hopelessness, and a feeling of "I've got nothing to lose" are a part of it.

And as for race, I notice this. Missouri City,TX is a suburb of Houston. It has a Black plurality, 41%, making it the largest ethnic group. It has a low crime rate. http://www.city-data.com/city/Missouri-City-Texas.html

You also have South Holland,IL, a suburb on the south side of Chicago: http://www.city-data.com/city/South-...-Illinois.html

As to why more crime happens in poor Black areas, I would say the violence is a symptom of other problems, such as no jobs, poor education, some individuals feeling like they have nothing to live for.

And another thing to consider is the drug trade. Drugs are often trafficked into the poorest and most run down areas, and that leads to gangs trying to sell drugs, and then violence occurs over drug turf. This leads to more questions. Why does anyone sell drugs in the first place? Why do some people use drugs? And why is it that despite the heavy prison sentences for crack and powder cocaine, many people still use drugs or sell them? Why is it that the drug war is not working?
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,161,783 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
And another thing to consider as well is that El Paso is also close to New Mexico. Some of its suburbs are in New Mexico, so someone could turn up there.

Not only could you get a gun at a gun show, but theft could be another way. As for Chicago, that city might have strict gun laws, but Gary, in Indiana, is nearby. Guns could be trafficked through there. Illinois also borders Kentucky, such guns could come up through there.

I would say this. Poverty isn't really a sole cause, but more something that comes with not being able to get a job. Most poor people don't kill each other. An important question is this. Why does killing and crime happen more in poor areas? Not having something to live for often comes with not having a job. Losing hope makes many people turn violent. Some people turn violent because of desperation. Anger, hopelessness, and a feeling of "I've got nothing to lose" are a part of it.

And as for race, I notice this. Missouri City,TX is a suburb of Houston. It has a Black plurality, 41%, making it the largest ethnic group. It has a low crime rate. http://www.city-data.com/city/Missouri-City-Texas.html

You also have South Holland,IL, a suburb on the south side of Chicago: http://www.city-data.com/city/South-...-Illinois.html

As to why more crime happens in poor Black areas, I would say the violence is a symptom of other problems, such as no jobs, poor education, some individuals feeling like they have nothing to live for.

And another thing to consider is the drug trade. Drugs are often trafficked into the poorest and most run down areas, and that leads to gangs trying to sell drugs, and then violence occurs over drug turf. This leads to more questions. Why does anyone sell drugs in the first place? Why do some people use drugs? And why is it that despite the heavy prison sentences for crack and powder cocaine, many people still use drugs or sell them? Why is it that the drug war is not working?
These are exactly the questions Chicago needs to be asking itself with the violence it has in some of its neighborhoods. This whole blame the gun laws is just silly and doesn't get to the root of the problem....though I am guessing most people posting in this forum don't really care about the actual problems in Chicago, they just like to push their agenda.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:11 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,042,570 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
The girl who was shot didn't live by the sword.
And you know that how?

Birds of a feather flock together.

No clear thinking, intellectually honest person would truly believe that she was not part of some gang.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,922 posts, read 2,777,385 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
lol, we've had a war on poverty for YEARS. And it still is not working.

It's because at some point, the poor and under privilaged have to get up on their own and do something, the working class, rich, and gub'mint can't do it all for them.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:40 PM
 
72,976 posts, read 62,554,457 times
Reputation: 21872
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
And you know that how?

Birds of a feather flock together.

No clear thinking, intellectually honest person would truly believe that she was not part of some gang.
But there is no evidence that she was part of a gang.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,161,783 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
But there is no evidence that she was part of a gang.
Alpha is just doing what he does best, "assuming."
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