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Old 01-27-2013, 03:02 PM
 
510 posts, read 360,762 times
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(Mods I figured because this article deals with immigration's effect on the economy it would be ok to post in Politics.)

An interesting post from Slate Moneybox's Yglesias. New Progressive zeitgeist?

Quote:
What Would Happen If We Let All The Immigrants In

By Matthew Yglesias
|
Posted Friday, Jan. 25, 2013, at 4:52 PM ET

Mickey Kaus has an elaborate theory of social equality vs "Money Liberals" that I don't really understand, but that also leads him to want to kick unauthorized migrants out of the United States and curtail the ability of future migrants to come to the United States. To my way of thinking, that involves completely discounting the interests of human beings who happen to have been born in Mexico or Morocco or Mali. They are perhaps reasons for deciding that people born in Boston or Birmingham count more than people born in Bangladesh or Bolivia, but they're nationalistic reasons not egalitarian ones.


At any rate, in responding to me on this point he suggests that cosmopolitanism would lead to disaster:
I leave it to you to imagine the real-world consequences of Yglesias’ position. (Hint: Blade Runner set in Brazil!) But what about my position? I would give Americans priority in the competition for low wage jobs. I worry more about whether they can make $12 an hour than I do whether Mexicans who may have made only $2 an hour are able to come here and make $8 an hour. “We take care of our own”–even though the jump from $2 to $8 might be a huge income boost for the immigrants, who are indeed “people too.”
I love Blade Runner but I think some data might help elucidate this point. According to Gallup there are 150 million people around the world who say they'd like to move permanently to the United States. Right now the United States has about 89 residents per square mile. Add another 150 million people and we'd be at around 135 people per square mile. How would that stack up in context? Well, France has 303 people per square mile and Germany has 593. Japan has 873. The Dutch have 1,287!

All those places have their share of problems (and so do we) but none of them are exactly post-apocalyptic hellscapes. I've never been to Japan, but the other countries are all quite pleasant. German cuisine would benefit from more immigrants.


Now that said, it does seem like the sudden arrival of 150 million new people all at once would overtax American infrastructure. Some kind of phase-up of permitted immigration levels (perhaps tied to a residency permit auction) would be a lot better than a sudden leap to an open borders policy. But the United States ran an open borders regime throughout the 19th century and we weren't worse off for it. On the contrary, it laid the foundations for American greatness. Shifting back in that direction—with exceptions for dangerous criminals and other select problem types—over time seems perfectly feasible to me and would substantially increase overall human welfare. Now obviously that doesn't resolve the question of whether or not, morally speaking, it makes sense to simply not care about the interests of foreigners. But Kaus and I agree that foreign-born people are people, so for my part I'd like to take their interests into consideration.
What Would Happen If We Let All The Immigrants In
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:10 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,998,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FabianS View Post
(Mods I figured because this article deals with immigration's effect on the economy it would be ok to post in Politics.)

An interesting post from Slate Moneybox's Yglesias. New Progressive zeitgeist?

What Would Happen If We Let All The Immigrants In
Legal aliens or ILLEGAL aliens? We DON'T need many more people moving here unless the're smart, have morals and obey OUR rules.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:15 PM
 
1,142 posts, read 835,079 times
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The country is already overpopulated, and an idea as stupid as opening up the borders to let everyone in would only accelerate the death of the United States.

Only a truly stupid individual could ever support such an idea.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:17 PM
 
11,371 posts, read 7,343,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mashed Potatoes View Post
The country is already overpopulated, and an idea as stupid as opening up the borders to let everyone in would only accelerate the death of the United States.

Only a truly stupid individual could ever support such an idea.
There's so much fail packed into this little package it's frightening. The USA is a nation of immigrants and will continue to be in the future.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:21 PM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,157,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
There's so much fail packed into this little package it's frightening. The USA is a nation of immigrants and will continue to be in the future.
Until we reach full employment, letting in more people is a fail in and of itself
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,469,891 times
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Camp of the Saints. That's what happens when you let them all in.
Today's mass of illegal immigrants are poorly educated and live in poverty and need government assistance.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:25 PM
 
11,371 posts, read 7,343,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Until we reach full employment, letting in more people is a fail in and of itself
Immigration is good for countries. If we didn't have legal and illegal immigration our population would be declining. Immigrants come to the country to work and start businesses.

I'm really going to look forward to the know-nothing wing of the GOP to start foaming at the mouth once the immigration reform bill or bills start getting closer to being passed and signed by Obama. I will be making popcorn and enjoying the gnashing of teeth and impotent rage.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:26 PM
 
1,142 posts, read 835,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
There's so much fail packed into this little package it's frightening. The USA is a nation of immigrants and will continue to be in the future.
uh no.

The U.S. was once a nation of immigrants, that time has long since passed.

If you go back far enough, most nations on the planet would be considered a "nation of immigrants".

The only fail here is your logic and knowledge of history.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:27 PM
 
11,371 posts, read 7,343,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mashed Potatoes View Post
uh no.

The U.S. was once a nation of immigrants, that time has long since passed.

If you go back far enough, most nations on the planet would be considered a "nation of immigrants".

The only fail here is your logic and knowledge of history.
You just proved your lack of knowledge when it comes to the history of the USA.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:29 PM
 
1,142 posts, read 835,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
You just proved your lack of knowledge when it comes to the history of the USA.
When you can articulate a factual argument substantiated by evidence, feel free to post again. Until then, continue eating your boogers while watching spongebob kid.

Are there more people in the U.S. who were born here, or who immigrated here?

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