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Old 01-27-2013, 04:27 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,017,029 times
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Republicans vote to preserve


The free market is perfectly capable of establishing fair market value.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Where they serve real ale.
7,249 posts, read 6,645,262 times
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Indeed. We spend over $200 billion on each and every yearly "farm bill" almost entirely on subsidies and "crop insurance" which is just another subsidy yet over 80% of it goes to just five companies. That's ~17 times more than we spend on welfare yet no one seems to care how these subsidies reward bad behavior, don't actually help family farms, and all just ends up getting sucked up by a few large companies. How about ADM and Cargill make their own ways through the world, justify their continued existence based upon market demand, and stop trying to steal money from tax payers?

When both New Zealand and Canada eliminated farm subsidies farm output actually INCREASED in value and family farmers saw their incomes shoot up. This is because instead of planting economically unprofitable but subsidized things they switched to farming other higher priced crops. Imagine that, farmers planting things based upon supply and demand instead of all planting the exact same thing because they were chasing free government cheese!
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:38 PM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,087,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Think4Yourself View Post
Indeed. We spend over $200 billion on each and every yearly "farm bill" almost entirely on subsidies and "crop insurance" which is just another subsidy yet over 80% of it goes to just five companies. That's ~17 times more than we spend on welfare yet no one seems to care how these subsidies reward bad behavior, don't actually help family farms, and all just ends up getting sucked up by a few large companies. How about ADM and Cargill make their own ways through the world, justify their continued existence based upon market demand, and stop trying to steal money from tax payers?
Most of the farm bill is subsidies for food stamps, and school cafeteria food. Are you going to slash those, too? All developed countries also have agricultural support programs for this reason. The trick is to find out how much of this money is going to BigAg, and how much are they producing for food stamps and school lunches. Unfortunately, cutting the Ag bill not only will stop the corporate welfare, but it is one of the very few if not the only program, that will also hit the poor as well. Poor Americans benefit from this Ag bill, since that is what is funding food stamps and school lunches

Last edited by theunbrainwashed; 01-27-2013 at 04:47 PM..
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:39 PM
 
29,599 posts, read 16,342,548 times
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Automotive, farming, energy,etc., no industry should get taxpayer subsidies.
Both parties do it and one side blaming the other is hypocritical.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
6,976 posts, read 7,745,631 times
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Unfortunately ending farm subsidies, which I would support, would have to be accompanied by some serious looks at the regulations and tariffs on imported produce. When produce is coming in from Mexico at a cost that is less than American farmers can grow it, there is a problem.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:48 PM
 
Location: it depends
6,074 posts, read 5,317,774 times
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Originally Posted by JimRom View Post
Unfortunately ending farm subsidies, which I would support, would have to be accompanied by some serious looks at the regulations and tariffs on imported produce. When produce is coming in from Mexico at a cost that is less than American farmers can grow it, there is a problem.
Yeah, it means we are wasting our money on US-grown produce, to the detriment of our wealth and that of Mexico as well. Why should produce be any different than televisions or T shirts? Trade lets us get more for everything we produce, as a whole, and pay less for everything we consume, as a whole. Our country and our world are richer as a result.

The farm bill is a crock, and I don't care what party label you might carry, you ought to admit it and argue for fixing it.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,172 posts, read 7,018,906 times
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End it.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Fredericktown,Ohio
6,899 posts, read 4,399,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRom View Post
Unfortunately ending farm subsidies, which I would support, would have to be accompanied by some serious looks at the regulations and tariffs on imported produce. When produce is coming in from Mexico at a cost that is less than American farmers can grow it, there is a problem.
That would be a problem but can the U S do anything about it due to NAFTA? that would have to be considered since our leaders will follow the treaty despite the effect on American farmers.

I remember the farm debate back in 2008 and as pointed out it is a bi partisan cluster f***, the parties will go after their own members that make any attempt to cut or end it. Just ask Flake {R} and Peterson {D} who were treated like the enemy. That is why the farm subsidies will never end even though a lions share goes to BigAg.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
6,976 posts, read 7,745,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
Yeah, it means we are wasting our money on US-grown produce, to the detriment of our wealth and that of Mexico as well. Why should produce be any different than televisions or T shirts? Trade lets us get more for everything we produce, as a whole, and pay less for everything we consume, as a whole. Our country and our world are richer as a result.

The farm bill is a crock, and I don't care what party label you might carry, you ought to admit it and argue for fixing it.
I agree that it is a crock, however that doesn't change the fact that our current import/export policies are also a collective crock.

As for why produce should be different from t-shirts and televisions, the simple answer is consumer safety. Regulations on growing produce in Mexico are far more lax than the regulations that govern American growers, which means that their produce is far more likely to be contaminated. Aside from that, why should we be sending money to Mexico or anywhere else for items that can be produced inside the United States at a reasonable cost?
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,689 posts, read 14,149,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRom View Post
Unfortunately ending farm subsidies, which I would support, would have to be accompanied by some serious looks at the regulations and tariffs on imported produce. When produce is coming in from Mexico at a cost that is less than American farmers can grow it, there is a problem.
Yes, and that problem is resolved by American farmers growing something else.

It's stupid for any country to produce anything that can be gotten elsewhere cheaper.

Comparative trade advantage. Read Krugman's Nobel Prize-winning work on comparative trade.

Capitalist Property Theory combined with the Free Market Economic System really does work --- so long as you don't interfere in it. Subsidies are interference.

If American farmers cannot compete against Mexican farmers, then too goddam bad. Find something else to grow. Convert the land to pastures and start raising sheep, hogs or cattle. Go organic and increase the supply of organic foods against demand for organic foods to lower the prices. Start growing cellulostic fibers for ethanol plants to reduce demand for corn and lower the price of corn for consumers as well as lowering the price of both ethanol and gasoline. Grow foods to export.

It ain't rocket science....it's common sense.

How stupid is it to tax me, then take my tax dollars and give it to farmers so they can charge me higher prices for food?

Comparatively...

Mircea
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