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Raising wages will do nothing, absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the people receiving them. Wages up = higher cost for goods due to higher labor costs for the companies producing/researching/shipping/insuring the products. This leaves them with the same buying power they had before. We do not operate in an economic vacuum. If you want more money, make yourself more valuable to potential employers or risk your own capital and start a business.
I believe there is some truth in this, in regard to basic principles of inflation. But raising wages sufficiently that low earners no longer receive taxpayer-funded assistance would reign in the source of their "earnings" more fairly (in other words, their earnings would come strictly from the company for whom they work, rather than from other taxpayers who are trying to work and provide for their OWN family).
Furthermore, when an employee feels s/he is being treated and compensated decently, when s/he feels like a valued, contributing member of the company rather than something barely above slave labor, wouldn't s/he be more productive, more committed, less inclined to leave the company? I'm sure some of you will point me to studies that refute that, but it certainly seems that a self-fulfilling prophecy type of concept would be at work here ~~~ treat employees like scum, they'll work like scum; treat 'em like they're important and valued and they'll act like it.
Why is this hypothetical skilled mechanic barely making a decent living?
Because of people that think like you, that "the weak" should get "killed and eaten." That sort of mentality is what has led to the current disastrous economic situation in the United States, which is affecting everything from low wages, sky-high profits of corporations, jobs having been shipped abroad for the greater profits of corporations, and a leak of funds into the industrial-military complex of corporations which has rendered our country penniless.
I believe there is some truth in this, in regard to basic principles of inflation. But raising wages sufficiently that low earners no longer receive taxpayer-funded assistance would reign in the source of their "earnings" more fairly (in other words, their earnings would come strictly from the company for whom they work, rather than from other taxpayers who are trying to work and provide for their OWN family).
Furthermore, when an employee feels s/he is being treated and compensated decently, when s/he feels like a valued, contributing member of the company rather than something barely above slave labor, wouldn't s/he be more productive, more committed, less inclined to leave the company? I'm sure some of you will point me to studies that refute that, but it certainly seems that a self-fulfilling prophecy type of concept would be at work here ~~~ treat employees like scum, they'll work like scum; treat 'em like they're important and valued and they'll act like it.
You make some valid points, but allowing continued illegal immigration quashes all of that by injecting adverse competition for jobs. See my post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Illegal aliens compete for no/low-skill jobs by agreeing to accept less pay. They can do that because it's usually unreported cash income, meaning that neither they nor their employer pay any payroll, etc., taxes on it. That depresses no/low-skill job wages for everyone else.
Raising wages will do nothing, absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the people receiving them. Wages up = higher cost for goods due to higher labor costs for the companies producing/researching/shipping/insuring the products. This leaves them with the same buying power they had before. We do not operate in an economic vacuum. If you want more money, make yourself more valuable to potential employers or risk your own capital and start a business.
You are absolutely right- this is lost to many liberals.
If we increase everyone's wages by 10X, it does nothing, as prices simply rise in lockstep.
If the workers want to invest the capital, take the risk, have the management and skill to operate and guide a company, let them start thier own company. If they lack the above, they are not "worth" as much as the entrepenuer who started the company and SHOULD NOT be paid as much.
A common mindset that I find on these forums is that the general working public isn't all that important and that the emphasis should be focused on CEO's and "job creators". Well If labor is so expendable and job creators are just doing everyone some kind of big favor, why don't these job creators do all the work? Why don't the heads of WAL-MART spend some time in their jeans factories? Why don't the owners of NIKE make their own shoes?
The simple and short answer is obviously that a hand full of people can't do all that work. It literally takes millions of people to create the majority of goods we consume. So the wealth generated by production DEPENDS on labor, meaning that the wealthiest of the wealthy could have only got where they are via someone else doing the work.
So how is it that we can justify "job creators" having all the wealth, while the people who make so little they have to apply for food stamps are the ones doing all the actual work?
Not everyone is qualified to do every job. Why shouldn't a heart surgeon clean the bathrooms and empty the trashcans at the hospital? Because his skills are more valuable being utilized in the operating room than the janitor's room. Anybody can sweep the floor. Not just anybody can perform open heart surgery. That is the answer as to why the CEO at Walmart doesn't spend time at the cash register in the store. Anybody can punch buttons on a cash register. Not just anybody can profitably run a multibillion dollar corporation.
And we can justify job creators having greater wealth precisely because they are job creators. The wealth is how they create the jobs. One person with a million dollars can create several jobs. A million people with a dollar each can't even get an Egg McMuffin.
So if you're a liberal you demonize the millionaire and tax his money. Instead of him creating 5 new jobs and taking 5 people off welfare and unemployment, you take the money and waste half of it on administrative costs then spread the other half around to those 5 people. Now you're out of money and still have 5 unemployed people needing benefits next year. So you have to go tax more money, waste more of it on administration, and give more benefits to those people. And the millionaire has even less money now to use to employ those people.
Government spending does not create wealth, it destroys it. Redistribution of wealth does not grow the economy. That's why I'm not a liberal.
One person with a million dollars can create several jobs. A million people with a dollar each can't even get an Egg McMuffin.
So if you're a liberal you demonize the millionaire and tax his money. Instead of him creating 5 new jobs and taking 5 people off welfare and unemployment, you take the money and waste half of it on administrative costs then spread the other half around to those 5 people. Now you're out of money and still have 5 unemployed people needing benefits next year. So you have to go tax more money, waste more of it on administration, and give more benefits to those people. And the millionaire has even less money now to use to employ those people.
Government spending does not create wealth, it destroys it. Redistribution of wealth does not grow the economy. That's why I'm not a liberal.
Common sense, but I can guarantee you that liberals will NOT understand that. Nor will they even try to understand that.
If I were making minimum wage, I would obviously work two jobs. I would try to work about 65 hrs/week. That is enough so you can still have time to relax/hang out a few nights every week.
65hrs/week, 50 weeks/year: $23,562/yr
Monthly after tax: $1,557
Rent: $300 (crappy apartment shared with two roommates)
Utilities: $150
Bus Pass: $95
Food: $300 (at home and eating out)
Cell Phone: $50
Internet: $75
Health Insurance: $120
Misc. Spending: $120
Savings: $347
And I personally think this was somewhat liberal in terms of food spending. I could have easily cut that down to $150/mo if I really wanted to.
Minimum wage IS a livable wage. People just want to live a bigger lifestyle than they should for their wage.
That's impressive, though unrealistic in my world. How did you have health insurance for only $120/month? And when I had to use public transportation, including parking at the train station, I was spending $275, and that was several years ago. I see you have no car expenses whatsoever. Some places don't have bus routes that come near them, so a car is essential to working.
Also, you were single at the time. What if this was a family? Let's see....both parents work at minimum wage, 7.25 x 40 x 2 = 2513. After taxes $2010. Parents work different shifts so only 3 hours a day overlap to reduce child care costs.
Rent in crappy unsafe area $550
Day care for 2 children (3 hrs a day, $6/hr at neighbor's house) $390
Utilities $200
Landline phone (no cells) $20
Used car payments $300 (they need 2 cars because they work different shifts, no bus line nearby).
Auto Insurance, basic PLPD $150
Gasoline $120
Health insurance $300
Food $500
This already adds up to $2530...more than $500 beyond what they earn. This includes NOTHING extra whatsoever, no clothing, no doctor bills, no car repairs, no Christmas gifts, no basic necessities like shampoo from Walmart. So, clearly, one of the parents has to take a second job. Now the husband and wife see each other even less, the children see that parent even less.....they'll do what they've gotta do, but it's not in the best interest of the children to have a family that is seldom together.
Some of you would probably say they shouldn't have had children if they couldn't afford them, or they should have gone to college so they could have a better job, or they should start their own business. Easy to say, but not always possible. Maybe they didn't have the grades to get into college, and they don't know the first thing about starting a business, and certainly can't get a loan to start a business! They are very hard workers, but they don't have a specific "skill set" that any local company thinks is worth more than minimum wage. The fact is that some people are born in this country who have a lot of strikes against them, and they don't have the resources to just get over the uphill climb and ever earn a hundred grand a year, which some of you make sound so easy. Some kids are lucky to get out of high school and out of their crime-filled neighborhoods ALIVE.
I know it's possible to overcome adversity. My dad had an 8th grade education and my mom made it through 10th. Yet I worked hard and put myself through college, and though I didn't choose a profession that pays well (the internet didn't exist back then, and I had no guidance from my parents on such things), I have done well enough despite my lack of family support for my higher education. Thankfully I had the foresight to get an education before having children. But some teens/young adults, for whatever reason start a family before they have figured out the "real world" and its costs, and they aren't well established in a decent paying job, and they don't realize until later on that they are basically trapped in a life of poverty.
I see a complete lack of compassion in this thread for those in such a situation.
but allowing continued illegal immigration quashes all of that by injecting adverse competition for jobs. See my post:
.....but it wasn't me who said anything about allowing illegal immigration. I agree with you completely that illegal immigration contributes to the economic difficulties of our country's low earners.
CEO are not more important. but they have money and hold on to it. as to laborers lots of them more laborers than jobs. and lots of new ones every day with no job for them. mom and dad are taking care of them but when they are gone, they will work cheaper than illegal mexicans and sleep in canyons at night too.
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