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Help young girls value themselves so that they do not seek affirmation from some horny boy.
Excellent.
Affirming...
Mircea
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9coach
I suppose there will always be women who feel they can not give their baby away and that their only 2 options are keeping the child or abortion.
"If I can't have it, no one can?" That's a disgusting attitude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9coach
I'd look at all the reasons a woman might choose abortion, and I'd widdle away at those.
Whittle. Whittle away. The main issue is money and selfishness. Let's be real. It's effectively murder for hire once you're past the 12 week period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9coach
How many "unwanted" babies and children have you personally adopted? Do you see the merit of the tactics I'm suggesting as a better means to your desired end?
Your tactics have no merit. You tossed out a Red Herring --- naturally since your position is indefensible --- throwing the onus on others by asking "how many have you adopted."
Abortion is not about me, rather it's about a sentient human sucking its thumb and reacting to sound and learning about it's in utero world that gets executed for the crime of "being."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53
Ummm, yea, that's why the pro-life party, Republicans, are always looking for ways to cut social programs that provide for women and children and are against requiring insurance companies and employers to provide BC coverage.
That is incongruous with your arguments for abortion. If we were to apply your reasoning, then people whom the tax payers do not want to subsidize should have their skulls crush and their brains sucked out and their corpse stuffed into a bag.
Right? Since I don't want to adopt an adult and pay for their birth control so they can do The Nasty, I should just abort them. After all, it's my right to choose; pro-choice and all.
I promise my post was sincere and just a concept I've thought would actually bring people together somewhat since the abortion issue is such a wedge. I didn't mean to say "stop talking about abortion" - I actually was trying to say here's how you could improve your effectiveness.
I'll take your word for it.
In the OP you asked:
"For the pro-lifers in the house, are you involved in any movements that address the contributing factors leading to abortions?"
Many, many pro-lifers are prominent in the adoption movement. Some pro-life friends of ours have produced this film about adoption (in addition to adopting several children of their own):
Most pro-lifers are deeply involved in supporting religious organizations whose beliefs, when applied in earnest, would radically reduce the circumstances leading to abortion. Case in point: 80 percent of abortions are performed on the children of unmarried women. Religions that discourage sex outside of marriage help reduce abortions. I'm a Catholic and support good Catholic causes. The Catholic faith is a powerful force for reducing abortions. When the Catholic faith is lived faithfully, the most common factors contributing to abortion disappear.
That is incongruous with your arguments for abortion. If we were to apply your reasoning, then people whom the tax payers do not want to subsidize should have their skulls crush and their brains sucked out and their corpse stuffed into a bag.
Right? Since I don't want to adopt an adult and pay for their birth control so they can do The Nasty, I should just abort them. After all, it's my right to choose; pro-choice and all.
Adopting....
Mircea
No.....wrong.
The topic is what things could be done to discourage women from having abortions......taking away safety nets is not going to discourage women from aborting.....in fact....it will encourage many of them to abort.
Another way to discourage abortion is to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place.....by making BC easily affordable and or free.
Finally, my personal argument for abortion is quite simply.......my body.....my choice.
The topic is what things could be done to discourage women from having abortions......taking away safety nets is not going to discourage women from aborting.....in fact....it will encourage many of them to abort.
The unmarried women who procure abortions - 80 percent of all abortions - have a good safety net in this country. They also have access to an incredible variety of cheap, ubiquitous birth control, as do their male paramours. The safety net is irrelevant. The problem is that they are having sex outside of marriage.
"For the pro-lifers in the house, are you involved in any movements that address the contributing factors leading to abortions?"
Many, many pro-lifers are prominent in the adoption movement. Some pro-life friends of ours have produced this film about adoption (in addition to adopting several children of their own):
Most pro-lifers are deeply involved in supporting religious organizations whose beliefs, when applied in earnest, would radically reduce the circumstances leading to abortion. Case in point: 80 percent of abortions are performed on the children of unmarried women. Religions that discourage sex outside of marriage help reduce abortions. I'm a Catholic and support good Catholic causes. The Catholic faith is a powerful force for reducing abortions. When the Catholic faith is lived faithfully, the most common factors contributing to abortion disappear.
Ummm.....one BIG problem with that......the vast majority of Catholics don't live their faith faithfully.
Far too many of their religious leaders don't even live their faith faithfully.
If I had your view, that every life in every womb should have the chance to enter this world, I'd get a few things in order first before I made abortion my main issue. I'd work toward a world where adoption was so common that there were very few children waiting for homes. I'd work toward improving the adoption system itself so that perception of adoption could improve.
Costs, legal fees and court rulings have been devastating to those who want to adopt. Adoptive parents are expected to pay birth mothers for the inconvenience of their pregnancy too. The average cost for an adoption is about $30,000. That's absolutely insane! You have to be rich to afford adoption. Why?? If it cost me nothing my wife and I would be more than happy to welcome an unwanted baby into our home. But $30K is way out of our price range. And to make matters worse, courts keep taking babies away from adoptive parents because the birth mothers changed their mind.
Who wants to sign up to spend thousands of dollars and constantly live under the threat of having your heart ripped out by some judge taking away the child that you love and that loves you? Often, the drug addicted or abusive mom gets their baby handed back to them. How does that make any sense?
Solve those things and more people would be adopting.
Quote:
Even with improvements to adoption, I suppose there will always be women who feel they can not give their baby away and that their only 2 options are keeping the child or abortion. I'd look at all the reasons a woman might choose abortion, and I'd widdle away at those. Maybe she's a mentally ill drug addict and feels she could never trust some random stranger to raise her kid (adoption) but also knows she could never be a fit parent herself. I'd take that information and put my efforts toward the drug and mental illness crisis. Maybe her boyfriend beats her senseless and she doesn't want to bring a baby into that situation. So that would indicate to me that I need to work toward addressing the domestic violence issue. Maybe money / lack of opportunity is a reason some women choose abortion instead of having a child. I'd focus on how to improve the economy, for example, before I tackled the abortion issue. Here's a doozie for ya: I've heard some women say they'd have an abortion because carrying a baby to term would ruin the appearance of their body! Can you figure out what to do about that one..? You work toward a society that values women for attributes and characteristics other than their looks!! What a novel concept!
So what you're saying is that women do not carry their baby full-term because:
1.) They are selfish.
2.) They are selfish.
3.) Life is difficult and they are too selfish to trust anyone else.
4.) They're narcissistic and selfish.
Abortion seems to be 100% about selfishness. That's a problem. The people of this nation are more selfish today than they ever have been in our history and it's only getting worse. Everything leading up to an unwanted pregnancy is generally all about selfishness too. If we weren't so selfish, abortion would only exist for unusual cases: Rape, incest, the mother's heath is in danger, etc.
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Hopefully everyone who is anti-abortion is already putting their energies into promoting abstinence and pregnancy prevention so that abortion isn't "needed" in the first place..
Agreed and I live this way already.
Fact is, pro-life organizations and movements are mostly religion-based and religious people are much more likely than non-religious people to adopt in my experience. The most right-leaning people I know are constantly taking in strays, sometime by adoption, sometimes by fostering, etc. Many religious-based organizations help absorb some of the cost of adoption.
In short, the pro-life movement is already doing what you're saying. If the adoption process was a little less terrifying and expensive, they've be even more successful placing unwanted children but the system is working against them.
If the adoption process was a little less terrifying and expensive, they've be even more successful placing unwanted children but the system is working against them.
That's very true. The family I mentioned upthread tried to adopt of one their foster children, but the adoption was denied by the county because the child wouldn't have its own bedroom.
In my family we have three kids to a bedroom, and I know some with four.
I give money every month (automatically deducted from my checking acct) and have for years to the ABBA fund, which is an organization that makes interest free loans and grants to families trying to adopt. Also, our entire family pooled our funds together for my daughter to adopt my grandson, which was no small feat because it cost over $25,000. I also periodically give a pretty large donation to a local agency which provides clothing, formula, diapers, etc to low income mothers.
Also, my parents adopted my brother - we used the same adoption agency forty years later to adopt my grandson.
So yeah, I'd say I put my money where my mouth is.
Also, my daughter got pregnant at age 19 - unmarried. She actually worked at the local Catholic diocese, in the front office. She was absolutely SPOILED ROTTEN while she was pregnant - the nuns and priests were so supportive of her decision not to have an abortion. Not only that , but she received excellent (and nearly free) medical care through the local Catholic hospital and various charities. In fact, when she had the baby, she had a private room at that hospital, and no, it wasn't because she worked at the church, it was just that they don't discriminate at all between their "charity" cases and other people with insurance.
She got offers - weekly - from parishioners who wanted to adopt her baby. In fact, one of my friends called me and said, "I promise you - if your daughter lets us adopt her baby, we'll let your family be as much a part of the baby's life as you want to be." My daughter decided to keep her baby, but believe me, she could have placed her in a loving home ten times over.
Ummm.....one BIG problem with that......the vast majority of Catholics don't live their faith faithfully.
True, but getting back to the OP's question, it remains the case that pro-life Catholics support things that help many thousands of Americans live their Catholic religion faithfully, thereby reducing the circumstances that most often contribute to abortion. I'm sure the same is true of Baptists, Mormons and others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53
Pipe dreams are not solutions.
These aren't pipe dreams. It's within the capacity of every Catholic individual to live a good, faithful Christian life.
Last edited by WesternPilgrim; 01-28-2013 at 04:59 PM..
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