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View Poll Results: How do you feel about this?
I feel bad, but its capitalism. You can work to move forward, and not work and be left behind. 8 17.78%
I feel bad, she should get a bit of assistance. 14 31.11%
Oh well, its capitalism. You can either sink or swim, in her case she decided to sink. 7 15.56%
Other: Please State. 16 35.56%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-29-2013, 12:23 PM
 
9,855 posts, read 15,200,125 times
Reputation: 5481

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMOREBOY View Post
I can agree with this, but what about those who want help? If I don't want help with something, in this case finding shelter, then leave me alone but those who want help should be able to have it. In some cases churches have a limit to how many homeless they can take, so where do they go after that? I remember late last year, this guy and his pregnant girlfriend came up to me and my old girlfriend asking for $20 which caught my by surprise but they stated the reason they needed so much is because the shelter they were going to stay at was $20. Of course I didn't believe that nonsense but I still gave them $5 and my girlfriend gave them $2 or $3 and we went our way. If what they said was indeed true, then I believe thats wrong. I'd rather have a periodic withdraw of my paycheck to go towards the shelters operations, rather than having the homeless cough up money to sleep there. But as I said above, I'm not sure how true it was. My girlfriend said some shelters do charge, but I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to that topic.

I always said if I was ever homeless, I'd go to a buffet everyday and live in Walmart, while cutting grass or just doing chores outside people homes rather than sleeping in a box. Of course a little begging would have to happen, but I'd try to be independent as much as possible. Walmart probably would kick me out after a while though. I know when I use to live in MD, our local library would be filled with homeless people during the day, I don't know where they went after it closed.
I agree with you, which is why we need to cut government based social welfare programs, lower tax rate and give everyday people more money to donate to charity. Privately run charities are more efficient than government programs. I would like to be able to give the money to organizations that can make a dollar go farther instead of letting government programs continue to be inefficient, wasteful, and unproductive compared to privately held alternatives.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:28 PM
 
5,915 posts, read 4,811,170 times
Reputation: 1398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Draper View Post
There is no socialist economy to study. Socialism has never existed.
Oh really? The USSR had a planned economy with nationalized industries, the private sector at 0%, how is that not socialism?
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Coastal Georgia
50,340 posts, read 63,906,560 times
Reputation: 93266
Most homeless people who mutter to themselves are mentally ill, or substance abusers or both. Since the libs decided that keeping people in mental institutions was a violation of the civil rights of the mentally ill, all these places were closed down.
So now, the mentally ill have the freedom to spurn all the shelters that are available, because the shelters have rules, and live "free" to huddle under found blankets outside in the bitter cold and mutter to themselves.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
6,811 posts, read 6,941,266 times
Reputation: 20971
Our taxes in Dallas are funding a large municipal golf course and a horse park. Over the past month, I've noticed a group of homeless folks gathered in an area by the river, where none existed before. They spend the day
huddled around a smoldering log. I'd much rather my taxes go towards providing some help for them, instead of the already privileged rich golfers and equestrians.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:33 PM
 
3,353 posts, read 6,437,729 times
Reputation: 1128
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
I don't see this as an "inequality" problem. I see this as a "he/she made huge mistakes somewhere along the way" problem. A person doesn't end up perpetually living on the streets without some level of personal irresponsibility along the way. There are far too many social organizations out there to help people who have simply had a short string of bad luck. To find themselves without groceries for the week or money for the electric bill is usually just temporary thing. Taking up residency on the streets such as the OP's example is the culmination of bad decisions, pride, selfishness, and probably mental illness.

I don't consider this "inequality" because this person had the same basic opportunities that everyone else had.
You really never know why that person is in that situation, it could be drug addiction, it could be bad decisions, it could be a lack of education, it could even be a bad business decision but nonetheless if they want help, it should be there. I understand there a plenty of social organizations out there that could help these people, but its not enough. Try getting these people cleaned up and back in the workforce. I know back in NC, we had this place that essentially would give people jobs for the day; most of the time those people were homeless. You'd see those same exact people line up everyday for a day job, and maybe that's why I really didn't see homelessness as bad as I see it here in the DC metro area. I'm positive some of these homeless people can benefit society in some way, some may even be more intelligent that some posters on this site but they decide not to do anything with their intelligence.

So my proposal on building small homes for them is to be a incentive to get off their butts and find work. I wouldn't allow them to live there if they aren't going to do anything, but with the help of local govt's and organizations I'd create those same day job type of places up here to combat homelessness. And as those homeless people get back on their feet, they'd have to eventually move out. Maybe I'm a dreamer, I know money runs the world but I just feel as if the homeless can benefit us a lot more than they do. I'd be willing to put stricter restrictions on illegal immigration, if allowed to help the homeless out a lot more since they are citizens. No American citizen should live the way they live.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 11,559,730 times
Reputation: 4262
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMOREBOY View Post
When I say capitalism, I'm talking about the model that some people want where people should be allowed to sink or swim or even simpler terms survival of the fittest. America isn't a full capitalist country, because when it comes to welfare we are more similar to socialist countries to a degree nonetheless some Americans would rather see us have full capitalism with no welfare system, or as said above 'survival of the fittest'. But how exactly do you feel about the images?
There is a big difference between free capitalism and crony corporatism, which is what we have now. I don't believe any us want to eliminate a social net, more freedom would benefit all of us including this woman. I am convinced that there would be many more programs, if the regulations were loosened. People are being arrested for feeding the homeless, and dumpster diving. That is ridiculous.
I was showing a clerk the avacodos that were past their prime, all of them, and suggested they lower the price. She said they aren't allowed to do that, they go to compost instead. That's stupid!
I feel especially sorry about the pics you show, because you say it's a woman, because it's in DC, and because it looks cold and rainy. You were very kind to give her a card for groceries. Kindness needs to become our next contagion, but we appear to be going the other direction.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Eugenius
593 posts, read 1,411,227 times
Reputation: 580
So if some of the people on the streets refuse help does that mean we should not provide help to ANY of them? And as somebody stated above, what if their mental illness is the reason they don't seek help? And what about homeless people under 18? They can't go to regular shelters who only accept people over the age of 18. Many shelters separate teh men and women, so what do married houseless people do? Or those with children?

There are so many cracks to fall through in this society, you can't blame it all on pride and bad choices and refusal to seek help and then wipe your hands of the matter.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Perpetuality On Wheels
447 posts, read 495,796 times
Reputation: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
Many, many people with mental health problems/additions refuse help. ...

I don't know if he had substance abuse issues that caused him to not seek help, but it is hardly the fault of capitalism when people point blank refuse to take advantage of the help that is out there.
As one making extensive traveling in different countries under different system over a long period, it appears clearly that such phenomena is exclusively connected with capitalism. Why under capitalism there are so many mental patients, and "people point blank refuse to take advantage of the help that is out there", is a social science project that deserves all examinations. Maybe there is only casual connection, or it is consequence of the system. But black and white pictures are, they are always connected with capitalism society. More capitalistic society it is, more severe they are, that is, more capitalistic means more inhumane , period.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:35 PM
 
Location: At the corner of happy and free
6,471 posts, read 6,670,076 times
Reputation: 16345
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
I don't see this as an "inequality" problem. I see this as a "he/she made huge mistakes somewhere along the way" problem. A person doesn't end up perpetually living on the streets without some level of personal irresponsibility along the way. There are far too many social organizations out there to help people who have simply had a short string of bad luck. To find themselves without groceries for the week or money for the electric bill is usually just temporary thing. But taking up residency on the streets such as the OP's example is the culmination of bad decisions, pride, selfishness, and probably mental illness.

I don't consider this "inequality" because this person had the same basic opportunities that everyone else had, and there's no shortage of social organizations to help people along before they find themselves living behind a grocery cart.
Tell this to the US vets who came back from combat with such severe PTSD they were barely functional. F*ckin irresponsible of them to sign up to defend out country, d*mn scumbags.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:37 PM
 
9,855 posts, read 15,200,125 times
Reputation: 5481
Quote:
Originally Posted by seagull84 View Post
As one making extensive traveling in different countries under different system over a long period, it appears clearly that such phenomena is exclusively connected with capitalism. Why under capitalism there are so many metal patients, and "people point blank refuse to take advantage of the help that is out there", is a social science project that deserves all examinations. But black and white pictures are, they are always connected with capitalism society. More capitalistic society it is, more severe they are, that is, more capitalistic means more inhumane , period.
This really couldn't be farther from the truth. Capitalistic tendencies give people more funds to actually help others.

Additionally, we hardly have capitalism in America, and making that claim is nothing short of incorrect.
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