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Old 02-01-2013, 10:17 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,098,568 times
Reputation: 2037

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
I lived in the 60s, in which trash was all over the highways, rivers were filthy, and smog filled the air. I remember when the Cuyohoga (sp?) river caught on fire. I remember fishing in a local river as a kid which had oil slicks and garbage floating in it. Open dumps were common (we shot rats there for fun). Isolated rural roads were littered with old appliances, dumped from urban dwellers. The US WAS DIRTY.

The EPA DID DO SOME GOOD THINGS. However, they have overstepped their bounds. No conservative wants dirty water and air. The EPA has progressed from an organization that has done some tremendous things for the US to an overpowering entity which enforces "laws" which lack common sense.

Why cannot the actions of the EPA be guided by SOUND SCIENCE and balanced with ECONOMIC REALITIES? China is an example of industry gone amuck (we had a taste of that in the 60s). The EPA has done some very good things, but needs some restraint and a reality check.
Because we as a country don't agree what sound science is or what our economic realities are.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Flippin AR
5,513 posts, read 5,230,375 times
Reputation: 6242
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
while i recognize that the EPA has done some good things for this country, i do like drinking clean water and breathing clean air, there is a tipping point where the agency goes from being effective to being draconian. they have reached that tipping point.
When they started micro-controlling the individual, rather than Big Industry, it went bad. After working in government for 10 years, I was horrified to find that the entities that commit the worst environmental damage are the ones that get a "free pass." Government itself is a huge environmental abuser. Big Business is large enough to control politicians. But when the individual tries to improve his own property in a way that would not harm the environment at all, he is often stopped in his tracks by ridiculous government review and permitting processes that cost more than the proposed improvements.

I personally was stopped from putting in a basement in a house, because it was within 150' of marsh grasses--even though putting the basement wouldn't have affected the marsh grass or any other environmental concern one iota. The permitting would have taken a year and cost well over $60,000, so we just didn't do it. The local businesses and local economy didn't get any boost from what we were willing to spend, the local government didn't get the extra property taxes--everybody lost, with nothing gained. Multiply that by the fact that NONE of the properties near the marsh could be substantially improved, and you've stopped the area from ever becoming nicer.

I doubt agencies like the EPA do much good anymore, but the harm they do is undeniable.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:25 PM
 
651 posts, read 703,865 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
while i recognize that the EPA has done some good things for this country, i do like drinking clean water and breathing clean air, there is a tipping point where the agency goes from being effective to being draconian. they have reached that tipping point.
They don't go far enough. Most people have BPA and many plastic softeners in their system. Its the cause of many illnesses. Many of the products that come into this country are protected by so called patent secrets on plastic productions and its very toxic. But as we all know the all pwerful and knowing Rick Perry wanted to make the EPA go away. LOL what an idiot.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:37 PM
 
30,024 posts, read 18,596,563 times
Reputation: 20808
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
Because we as a country don't agree what sound science is or what our economic realities are.
Unfortunately, that should be fairly clear cut and straight forward. However, one simply needs to ask the average person about such issues to recognize that the average American is a complete imbecile who should not hold voting rights, as they have no idea about the principles they are actually voting for.

Good science is objective- politics are not. The EPA is more guided by politics than science today. As a kid, I, as well as many others, embraced the fact that US needed to be cleaned up. Mission accomplished- the US IS MUCH CLEANER, THANKS TO THE EPA. Now they have gone too far and are making decisions which have no scientific basis or evidence in reality. That is when a government agency (which always grows) turns into a monster.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:45 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,098,568 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Unfortunately, that should be fairly clear cut and straight forward. However, one simply needs to ask the average person about such issues to recognize that the average American is a complete imbecile who should not hold voting rights, as they have no idea about the principles they are actually voting for.

Good science is objective- politics are not. The EPA is more guided by politics than science today. As a kid, I, as well as many others, embraced the fact that US needed to be cleaned up. Mission accomplished- the US IS MUCH CLEANER, THANKS TO THE EPA. Now they have gone too far and are making decisions which have no scientific basis or evidence in reality. That is when a government agency (which always grows) turns into a monster.
Such as....
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:17 AM
 
29,409 posts, read 21,967,571 times
Reputation: 5455
Hell we can't even trust the people who are running the EPA. Who knows what the hell they are dreaming up with their enviro buddies and secret emails. So much for transparency.

"A second Environmental Protection Agency official stands accused of using a personal email address to shield communications with environmental activists from public disclosure.
Court documents show that EPA Region 8 Administrator James Martin corresponded with the Environmental Defense Fund — where he previously worked as an attorney — through his private email account.
EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson recently came under fire for her use of email aliases, before she announced her resignation. "

Read more: Top EPA official uses private email account to correspond with environmental groups | The Daily Caller
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:46 AM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,926,180 times
Reputation: 17863
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
In itself no. But when you consider all the ill effects of burning coal.... Biomagnification of mercury (yes it may not affect humans that greatly, but how about the rest of the ecosystem),
The US account for about 3% of global mercury emission and US coal plants themselves are less than 1%. If you were to eliminate every coal fired plant in the US it's going to have a negligible effect.

Quote:
sulfar, nox, and other pollutants... it adds up.
There's been pollution controls in place for decades now, again we're at the point of diminishing returns. This is not what they are going after though, at the end of this month any coal plant that hasn't begun construction will fall under the CO2 caps. If they were retroactive even natural gas plants built in the early part of the last decade couldn't meet these standards.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:51 AM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,926,180 times
Reputation: 17863
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
Promoting energy efficiency which better uses our natural resources is jumping the shark?
They are not promoting, they are mandating and since CFL's were brought up there is lot of legitimate complaints. For example if you use electric for heat what type of bulb you use is irrelevant and there is people that use these bulbs as a small heater in certain applications. If you live in a cold climate like me they are no good for outside use and since that lighting is typically turned on and off a lot there is little or no savings anyway.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:53 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,927 posts, read 14,111,175 times
Reputation: 16638
The EPA was not the solution to the problem.
The source of the problem was the limited liability of the polluters (or "poisoners")... aka "artificial persons" aka "corporations."
Limited liability allow groups of people to profit while not being held liable for the harm they do.

To really tame pollution, one could do several things:
1. Eliminate limited liability;
2. Make all outlets upstream of inlets;
3. Require that corporate boards and executives ingest random samples of their effluent.

If any toxins do get released, our sincerest sympathies to the survivors, and better luck to the new management / successors.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:54 AM
 
12,268 posts, read 6,440,885 times
Reputation: 9418
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Exactly and when someone suggests there is people that would allow US cities to look like that they are just being ridiculous.
We`ve been there.
pittsburgh pollution photos - Yahoo! Search Results
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