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Old 02-05-2013, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Planet earth
3,280 posts, read 1,301,767 times
Reputation: 1100

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Statutory Ape View Post
Well, corporations certainly don't have the right to discriminate!
Actually, YES... they do. The law is unconstitutional.

Using your logic the catholic church should not have the right to discriminate. A Jewish Synagogue would be required to hire an anti-Semite. A Muslim Mosque will be required to let Christians and Jews attend their services... and the Supreme Court of the United States will mandate that the Boy Scouts of America accept gays and non-Christians. Oops... You LOST that court decision time and time again.

 
Old 02-05-2013, 09:44 PM
 
14,920 posts, read 11,133,611 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
Actually, YES... they do. The law is unconstitutional.
Well, according to the Supreme Court such laws are not unconstitutional.

Quote:
Using your logic the catholic church should not have the right to discriminate. A Jewish Synagogue would be required to hire an anti-Semite. A Muslim Mosque will be required to let Christians and Jews attend their services... and the Supreme Court of the United States will mandate that the Boy Scouts of America accept gays and non-Christians.
Um, no.
 
Old 02-05-2013, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Planet earth
3,280 posts, read 1,301,767 times
Reputation: 1100
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer View Post
The baker runs a business open to the public, that is not a private business. If he ran a business that he only served via his house or from one not open to the public, then that would be a private business. As such, his is open to the public and he does not have the right to refuse service based on his religious beliefs. If he felt that black people were an abomination, he as well cannot refuse them service. I am a private business that is not open to the public, I refuse to do yard service for any church or church run organization, that as a private business I have the right to do, but if I worked for a local nursery and tried that, I would be in the wrong.

Oh so you're saying YOU can discriminate against others based on the fact that it is a religion, but the baker in Oregon cannot discriminate against something he believes is wrong, based on his religions beliefs.



Wait a minute... I think I get it.
 
Old 02-05-2013, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
29,041 posts, read 44,910,327 times
Reputation: 20406
Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
I have no RIGHT to DEMAND you or any other business provide me with a product or a service. I have no RIGHT to make ANY demand of you or your business. My RIGHT lies in my ability to go elsewhere.

I don't care if they are the ONLY cake business for 1,000 miles. My right would be to go 1,001 miles and ATTEMPT to engage in FREE WILL, free market exchange there. I cannot force you to sell me your product or service, especially if in doing so, your RIGHT to GOD given free will must first be compromised.

Do I have a right to throw you out if you come into my business, being loud and using profanity? Do I have a right to throw you out of you come in and urinate or defecate upon my floor? Do I have a right to throw you out if you walk in stark naked, even if ther are no laws against you going stark naked.

In all of the situations I described above, I would be well within my RIGHT to throw you out. No court would EVER argue that I wasn't within my right when I did this. How can passing a law that violates my morality, forcing the morality of another person upon me, upon my children, upon my religion and beliefs be considered a right?

Can a group of swingers petition the government, demanding they have a RIGHT to have sex with people they don't know at least two times a week? You and I both would say that was insane. If those people can find other who are willing, more power to them. It undoubtedly would never be considered as proposed legislation. But just assume it was passed into law... Would ANY court agree that it made perfect sense... after all, some legislative body passed a law.

You have a RIGHT to your morals due to GOD given free will. You do NOT have a right to impose your morals upon others due to their GOD given right to free will.
None of your examples are relevant, since they would fall under the category of "behavior" - and every business has the right to set behavioral standards for use (I even gave examples of that in my library, earlier in the thread). So unless these women were having sex in the store, their sheer existence as lesbians does not qualify as a "behavior" that would allow a business to refuse service.

I'm sorry if you think discrimination should be legal, but as of now it is not. So if you break that law, you pay the consequences. Period. And what about the lesbian couple's G-d given right to be treated as equal citizens? Do you not believe in our Consitution? Discriminate all you want at home, in church, etc - but while serving the public, you really need to check those prejudices at the door. Why are you defending bigotry? Doesn't seem very Christ-like to me.
 
Old 02-05-2013, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
29,041 posts, read 44,910,327 times
Reputation: 20406
Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
Oh so you're saying YOU can discriminate against others based on the fact that it is a religion, but the baker in Oregon cannot discriminate against something he believes is wrong, based on his religions beliefs.



Wait a minute... I think I get it.
Nope, you don't get it at all... try again!!
 
Old 02-05-2013, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Planet earth
3,280 posts, read 1,301,767 times
Reputation: 1100
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
Well, according to the Supreme Court such laws are not unconstitutional.

Um, no.

If they are not unconstitutional, why do those laws MANDATE employers (not individuals or employees themselves) not allow discrimination, yet at the same time the KKK is allowed to march on the Capitol? Why does one association (a gathering of like minded people with like minded goals and aspirations) have a right to openly display discrimination, yet the other does not? Are they saying the KKK is a religion and therefore are exempt from discrimination laws? Are they saying that only certain groups are allowed to discriminate?

I do not have a right to impose my morals upon you any more than you have a right to impose your morals upon me if the one being imposed upon believes it immoral. You DO have a right to believe that your position is moral in your eyes, just as I have a right to believe my position is moral in my eyes.

Discrimination laws violate my natural right to GOD given free will including my right to choose whom I will or will not associate with. Furthermore, discrimination laws specifically violate the 1st Amendment when they force another person's morality upon me in violation of my religious beliefs.
 
Old 02-05-2013, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Planet earth
3,280 posts, read 1,301,767 times
Reputation: 1100
Your right to your morality ends when you try to impose it upon me AND it contradicts my right to my morality.


Otherwise we could pass a law requiring everyone become bible thumping Christians because it was our morality.



You have no right to demand my services simply because I provide them to the public. I have the right to deny my services to anyone, and have done so simply because I didn't like someone. They have no right to demand I provide service unless I accept based upon a free will, free market exchange where BOTH parties agreed to the deal. And I have no right to demand payment for my services unless the very same MUTUAL free will, free market exchange deal is agreed upon.
 
Old 02-05-2013, 10:14 PM
 
14,920 posts, read 11,133,611 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
If they are not unconstitutional, why do those laws MANDATE employers (not individuals or employees themselves) not allow discrimination, yet at the same time the KKK is allowed to march on the Capitol? Why does one association (a gathering of like minded people with like minded goals and aspirations) have a right to openly display discrimination, yet the other does not? Are they saying the KKK is a religion and therefore are exempt from discrimination laws? Are they saying that only certain groups are allowed to discriminate?
It's a very simple distinction: commercial businesses that serve the public vs private associations of people
 
Old 02-05-2013, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
29,041 posts, read 44,910,327 times
Reputation: 20406
Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
Your right to your morality ends when you try to impose it upon me AND it contradicts my right to my morality.


Otherwise we could pass a law requiring everyone become bible thumping Christians because it was our morality.



You have no right to demand my services simply because I provide them to the public. I have the right to deny my services to anyone, and have done so simply because I didn't like someone. They have no right to demand I provide service unless I accept based upon a free will, free market exchange where BOTH parties agreed to the deal. And I have no right to demand payment for my services unless the very same MUTUAL free will, free market exchange deal is agreed upon.
You don't understand the law very well, do you? Impossible to explain things to somebody who can't even grasp the concepts of behavior vs identity and public-serving vs private. So I officially give up!
 
Old 02-05-2013, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
256 posts, read 173,114 times
Reputation: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
That is a law. It is NOT a constitutional right. It is NOT a natural right since humans have a natural GOD given right to associate with whomever they choose. It is known as human nature and free will. Federal and state laws banning discrimination are an attempt to deny one their GOD given right to free will and are therefore unconstitutional.
Blah, blah blah freedom= bigotry

Not Constitutional? Try again

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