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Old 02-05-2013, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Planet earth
3,266 posts, read 1,292,652 times
Reputation: 1093

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
I consider discrimination a bad thing. However, we let people in their private lives discriminate and for whatever damn reason they want. That falls under under a person's freedom of speech, freedom of association, and their Constitutional right to privacy.

Commerce and commercial activity are very different. The Constitution specifically allows the government to regulate commercial activity for the promotion of our general welfare.

And another person willing to bastardize the Commerce Clause in the name of general welfare. Troll be gone...

 
Old 02-05-2013, 11:14 PM
 
14,920 posts, read 11,109,700 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
And another person willing to bastardize the Commerce Clause in the name of general welfare. Troll be gone...
I'm a troll because I interpret the Commerce Clause differently than you? (By the way - our judiciary agrees with me, not you).
 
Old 02-06-2013, 12:19 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
29,041 posts, read 44,843,938 times
Reputation: 20391
Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
And what about the Amish? They can choose. They can even deny you. What's your point?

As to Warren Jeffs. He was violating people's right to liberty and their right to property (their lives, their bodies, etc) Please don't be an ass.
Amish is a religion/culture, not a business or public service... and this is precisely why I declared defeat in my attempt to explain these concepts to you.
 
Old 02-06-2013, 12:26 AM
 
2,950 posts, read 2,003,309 times
Reputation: 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
Amazing all these posters who do not support state laws, I thought that's what y'all supported? "The Oregon Equality Act of 2007" is a state law.
because to apply it to this case is unconstitutional.

PS this person followed the law he didn't deny them services because of their sexual orientation but for their evil lifestyle. Even if their attracted to members of the same sex they don't have to act on it.
 
Old 02-06-2013, 12:42 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
29,041 posts, read 44,843,938 times
Reputation: 20391
Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
Oh please don't give up. Answer this. Can I refuse to cut your grass, for whatever reason I have, deciding to move on to the next potential customer? Why can I discriminate? What power within myself, do "I" contain that gives me this ability? Is it my natural right, my GOD given right to free will? How can you legislate that right away from me or anyone else? What law can remove my free will and if my 1st Amendment right says,
Okay, I'll give it one more shot - although I'm not a lawyer either, so it's possible I'm missing a few details. If you are cutting grass as a personal venture, and do not qualify as a "place of public accommodation," then you can pick & choose who to service. If you open a gardening store, on the other hand, you cannot turn away customers based on protected classes. And if you're a non-tax-exempt business that employs (I think 10+?) people, you also have to follow certain laws regarding fair hiring practices.

"The Federal Civil Rights Act guarantees all people the right to "full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin." (or sexual orientation in some states)

More: https://www.legalzoom.com/us-law/equ...refuse-service

Quote:
how can ANY law be written that prohibits my free exercise of my religious beliefs?
Nobody is doing any such thing. Unless this cake shop doubles as a church, there is no "religious belief" or practice involved here. Did anyone say he can't hold these beliefs, or freely practice Christianity? Plus, I'm sure he sells cakes to "sinners" every day, and probably doesn't feel THOSE customers violate his beliefs. Wonder if he does Bar-Mitzvah cakes, or cakes for children with single mothers?

Out of curiosity, what do you do for a living? If you're in a line of work where customers/patrons are involved, do you feel constitutionally violated every time you serve a non-Christian? I mean, even if they're just buying a book of stamps, those stamps could be used to mail a donation to Muslim groups! Makes about as much sense as denying a cake to a lesbian couple, when they're not even planning to get married in your presence.

Quote:
The law is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
If that is how you feel, take it up with your state representatives. But for now that is the law, and anyone who is found breaking said law is subject to penalties.

I think the laws regarding recreational marijuana use are "unconstitutional," but when I got busted for possession (before I had my medical card), I accepted the consequences and paid my fine. Then, instead of whining about how unjust the law was, I joined NORML, got my medical card, and signed/voted for everything legalization-related... didn't just keep breaking the law, while blaming the cops for violating my freedoms.

Last edited by gizmo980; 02-06-2013 at 12:54 AM..
 
Old 02-06-2013, 01:18 AM
 
2,950 posts, read 2,003,309 times
Reputation: 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer View Post
Many people consider it bad taste when someone forces their religious beliefs on others.
and even more people consider it bad taste when someone forces their anti religious pro deviancy beliefs on others.
 
Old 02-06-2013, 01:36 AM
 
2,950 posts, read 2,003,309 times
Reputation: 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
Ah, no. It isn't.
No more than a men's store is discriminating against women when it doesn't sell dresses.
do you also think its discrimination to not sell a skirt to a man (who intends to wear it) ?
 
Old 02-06-2013, 01:39 AM
 
2,950 posts, read 2,003,309 times
Reputation: 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer View Post
The baker runs a business open to the public, that is not a private business. If he ran a business that he only served via his house or from one not open to the public, then that would be a private business. As such, his is open to the public and he does not have the right to refuse service based on his religious beliefs. If he felt that black people were an abomination, he as well cannot refuse them service. I am a private business that is not open to the public, I refuse to do yard service for any church or church run organization, that as a private business I have the right to do, but if I worked for a local nursery and tried that, I would be in the wrong.
so you are saying that religious people can't open public busineses?

you are the true bigot.
 
Old 02-06-2013, 01:43 AM
 
2,950 posts, read 2,003,309 times
Reputation: 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero View Post
Religious persecution? No. Business owners are required to follow the law, regardless of their beliefs. The Courts have upheld that equal access to public accommodation out weighs individual liberty.

The only question here, based on the wording of legal statutes is whether a bakery constitutes public accommodation. Restaurants do, but whether a bakery does is up to the courts.
the only question is why "people" think that the lesbo terrorists are the persecuted ones.
 
Old 02-06-2013, 02:00 AM
 
16,438 posts, read 19,054,927 times
Reputation: 9512
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Jew View Post
and even more people consider it bad taste when someone forces their anti religious pro deviancy beliefs on others.
Indeed.
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