Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-04-2013, 04:10 PM
 
3,436 posts, read 2,948,742 times
Reputation: 1787

Advertisements

Quote:
AUSTIN– In a ruling that could signal a huge fiscal impact on Texas, a state judge ruled Monday that the Texas school finance system is not delivering enough funding for schools to do their job and is sending out that money in an unfair and unconstitutional manner. State District Judge John Dietz, who heard 12 weeks of testimony before issuing his decision, gave the more than 600 school districts who sued the state most of what they hoped for – though they will be successful only if the Texas Supreme Court upholds the ruling. The state is expected to appeal to the high court, which could hear the case later this year.
In an oral ruling from the bench that was handed down after closing arguments from both sides, Dietz ruled the school funding system in inadequate and inequitable, and must be overhauled. “There is no free lunch. We either want increased standards (in schools) and are willing to pay the price, or we don’t,” he said from the bench. “There is a cost to act, namely a tax increase. There is also a cost not to act, the lost of our competitive position as a state.”
Judge: Texas school finance system ruled unconstitutional | Dallas-Fort Worth Education News - News for Dallas, Texas - The Dallas Morning News
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-04-2013, 04:16 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,126 posts, read 16,153,979 times
Reputation: 28335
Judicial legislation. Drives me nuts, no matter how good the cause.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2013, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,464,288 times
Reputation: 27720
So sad to hear that. The rich districts sued to get "their money" back from being redistributed to the poor districts so that all schools had fairly equal funding.

Budget cuts bring out the worst in people and show their true colors.
I guess those poor rural schools will have to be content not to be on par with the rich districts.

This is one area (education) where I think this redistribution works to create an equal environment for learning regardless of your family's financial background.

Here's some background if you are not familiar with Texas school funding.
I lived in the Austin area and heard all about it when the teacher layoffs started. One very wealthy district PTO decided to hire and pay teachers themselves because budget cuts affected their enrichment programs.


Texas: Wealthy districts sue over school finance - BusinessWeek
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2013, 04:35 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,184,586 times
Reputation: 17209
If the courts say it's not fair for some systems to get less than others that has already been upheld elsewhere. (whether I agree or not is irrelevant).

A judge has no business saying that the state is not spending enough in general though. It's not the courts place to determine how high taxes must be.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2013, 04:36 PM
 
1,131 posts, read 2,025,227 times
Reputation: 883
"There is a cost to act, namely a tax increase."

I don't know the specifics of how the money is collected and distributed in Texas and don't really have an opinion on that, but I have to chime in on the above quote from the court.

Why is it always assumed the only way get better results is to spend more money? Could it be possible that the resources are enough, but the processes are not?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2013, 04:38 PM
 
3,436 posts, read 2,948,742 times
Reputation: 1787
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
So sad to hear that. The rich districts sued to get "their money" back from being redistributed to the poor districts so that all schools had fairly equal funding.

Budget cuts bring out the worst in people and show their true colors.
I guess those poor rural schools will have to be content not to be on par with the rich districts.

This is one area (education) where I think this redistribution works to create an equal environment for learning regardless of your family's financial background.

Here's some background if you are not familiar with Texas school funding.
I lived in the Austin area and heard all about it when the teacher layoffs started. One very wealthy district PTO decided to hire and pay teachers themselves because budget cuts affected their enrichment programs.


Texas: Wealthy districts sue over school finance - BusinessWeek

I live in the Dallas area, in P(Plano)ISD. Teachers were laid off, some classes were discontinued. My son was actually directly affected. He took Latin 1 in 9th grade, but had to take Latin 2 online, which basically consisted of them reading from a screen and taking quizzes and tests. They laid off all but one Latin teacher in the entire district. The ended up having to give a district wide curve for the class. It really isn't fair to the students.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2013, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,464,288 times
Reputation: 27720
One rich district had to lay off 294 people and only 49 of them were teachers. And right after that they hired 21 teachers back. So it was really admin staff they layed off.

The rural school where I'm at there are 3 math teachers total for the middle school and they contain the core 6,7,8 math, remedial math, AP Math and UIL Math. And there is no Math curriculum coordinator. One conference period and lunch is all they have and no aides.

Some of these districts are very spoiled. My son was in a district near Austin that went from poor to rich with the boom as subdivisions took over the farms. Each school had it's own curriculum advisor for the teachers and multiple teachers and aids per class and dedicated subject teachers for the various flavors of the subject.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2013, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,630 posts, read 19,414,577 times
Reputation: 6462
Kansas City desegregation case all over again with the same cast of characters issuing misguided opinions.

Quote:
To help us assess this position, we turned to Judge John Dietz, a legendary courthouse figure who currently sits on the 250th District Civil Court. (The 250th and the 353rd share a central docket, so he’s particularly informed on this topic.) Dietz’s knowledge of court history in Travis County runs deep, and so does his commitment to the Democratic Party.
Travis County Democratic Party | The Legendary Judge Dietz
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2013, 04:52 PM
 
3,436 posts, read 2,948,742 times
Reputation: 1787
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
One rich district had to lay off 294 people and only 49 of them were teachers. And right after that they hired 21 teachers back. So it was really admin staff they layed off.

The rural school where I'm at there are 3 math teachers total for the middle school and they contain the core 6,7,8 math, remedial math, AP Math and UIL Math. And there is no Math curriculum coordinator. One conference period and lunch is all they have and no aides.

Some of these districts are very spoiled. My son was in a district near Austin that went from poor to rich with the boom as subdivisions took over the farms. Each school had it's own curriculum advisor for the teachers and multiple teachers and aids per class and dedicated subject teachers for the various flavors of the subject.
True, but cutting the budget was not going to help. Plus the budget cuts affected both wealthy and poor districts. There are classes no longer being offered and over-crowded classrooms. There are processes that can be changed, but I don't think they can do that with less money.


Quote:
But attorneys for the school districts said the bottom 15 percent of the state's poorest districts tax average 8 cents more than the wealthiest 15 percent of districts but receive about $43,000 less per classroom.
Rick Gray, a lawyer representing districts mostly in poorer areas of the state, said during closing arguments that Texas must begin producing better educated college graduates, or it would see its tax base shrink and needs for social services swell due to a workforce not properly prepared for the jobs of the future.
Judge: Texas School Finance Plan Unconstitutional - ABC News

Quote:
Nearly two-thirds of the school districts in Texas– including Dallas and dozens of other North Texas districts – jumped into the court case after the Legislature made unprecedented funding reductions in 2011 that forced massive job cuts and larger classes across the state. At the same time, the state imposed a new testing program that has seen high failure rates among high school students who were tested. Unlike previous exams, the state offered no financial aid to help improve the skills of those students and many face the prospect of no diploma at graduation.The funding decreases combined with the higher state standards was the last straw for many districts as they signed up with the four plaintiff groups who are seeking billions of additional dollars and a new system of paying for public education.
Quote:
The Richardson school district, for example, was forced over the last two years to request class size waivers that permitted 550 elementary classes to exceed the state’s 22-pupil limit for kindergarten through fourth grade. The previous two years, only 13 waivers were needed.
Judge: Texas school finance system ruled unconstitutional | Dallas-Fort Worth Education News - News for Dallas, Texas - The Dallas Morning News
.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2013, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Clear Lake Area
2,075 posts, read 4,445,897 times
Reputation: 1974
This all could have been avoided if Perry would have used some of the funds from the swelling "rainy day fund" a couple years ago when school districts were pleading for it. Instead, massive education cuts... now this week Perry says the fund has too much money, and he wants to use $3.7 billions on infrastructure.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:52 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top