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Old 02-05-2013, 09:08 AM
 
77,484 posts, read 33,024,777 times
Reputation: 15420

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaylenwoof View Post
But you failed to address the central point of my post. Why did the cars have to be destroyed? Many of the people driving the cars didn't want to give them up. Why not just let people keep driving the cars? Political pressure killed those cars, not pure economics.
These type of cars (experimental) are always destroyed. This isn't some conspiracy tied to these cars.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,715 posts, read 11,494,237 times
Reputation: 5606
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
I don't buy the hybrid myth that they pay for themselves in fuel savings. Now if you bought a hybrid as a "green" gesture, even though there are arguments against that, makes more sense.
I copy pasted this from another website.

[LEFT]But I thought a hybrid would save more gas money!
Anyone can see that 46mpg could save more gas than a 29mpg car. But how much more? A quick glance may show a 59% savings by choosing the Prius (46-29)/29=59%. However its easy to be deceived. The savings is really 35%! (34-22)/34 Does that still sound like a lot of savings?
The Prius averages 46 mpg and consumes about 22 gallons per 1,000 miles.
12,500 miles x 3 years x 22 gallons per 1000 miles = 825 gallons
825 gallons x $4 gallon gas = $3,300
The Civic averages 29 mpg and consumes about 34 gallons per 1,000 miles.
12,500 miles x 3 years x 34 gallons per 1000 miles = 1275 gallons
1,275 gallons x $4 gallon gas = $5,100
$5,100 - $3,300 = $1800 in gas money savings from the hybrid after three years on $4/gallon gasoline.
The Prius costs $5,633 more than the Civic. After three years, the Prius has yet to pay for itself even on $4/gallon gasoline. It is still owes $3,833 to the Civic.

If your really trying to save money and use less fossil fuel AND drive the miles , diesel is the only way to go. I paid $9500 for my Jetta four in a half years ago it gets 48-50 mpg so far its got 182k miles on it, I plan on putting at least another 150k on it. To me it makes way more sense than a Hybrid. At least for the moment, who knows in another 10 years or so. [/LEFT]
Avg. Paid:$19,108 - $23,251 Prius C:
2012 Toyota Prius c Reviews, Pictures and Prices | U.S. News Best Cars

Avg. Paid:$18,413 - $24,551 Honda Civic
2013 Honda Civic Reviews, Pictures and Prices | U.S. News Best Cars

The Prius C is only a few hundred dollars more than the Civic not $5,633.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:15 AM
 
7,249 posts, read 5,545,866 times
Reputation: 7948
Quote:
I wonder how many advances don't get brought to market because the government propped up or funded the competing technology of a crony?
You mean like electric cars, which struggle to compete against massively subsidized oil?

Funny I don't hear you complaining about cheap gas prices at the pump.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:16 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,583 posts, read 8,238,820 times
Reputation: 4158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
The article doesn't say fossil fuels is the replacement, it says hydrogen, which I have supported for a long time.

Trouble with hydrogen is it takes fuel to make it.
Trouble with hydrogen is that it takes a huge volume of it to carry a useable amount of energy.

You either have to liquefy it (as the Space Shuttle does, impractical for home use with the cryogenic temperatures needed), or compress huge amounts of it, very dangerous in a wreck or if someone mishandles it (see Hindenburg, Challenger).

Fuel cells might hold some promise (spacecraft use those too), but they are even farther behind in development, than electric batteries are.

Hydrogen is even more impractical than electric power. Electric is coming along, but still has a long way to go before it becomes useable by the general public, as anything more than a second short-range car or an expensive, exotic toy.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:16 AM
 
14,920 posts, read 11,109,700 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
Well all I can say is we told you green weenies this was going to be a failure. Don't worry though Obama only wasted away taxpayer money on it. That stuff grows on tree's according to the swooners.

"President Barack Obama has put $5 billion in taxpayer money behind his goal of having 1 million electric cars on U.S. roads by 2015. The Republican presidential ticket says it’s money wasted on “losers.”
I'm not sure what 5 billion you're talking about, but I can tell you that when my parents bought their 2013 Chevy Volt the $7,500 federal tax credit they received was due to a law signed by George W. Bush.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:17 AM
 
10,059 posts, read 6,197,932 times
Reputation: 5680
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Avg. Paid:$19,108 - $23,251 Prius C:
2012 Toyota Prius c Reviews, Pictures and Prices | U.S. News Best Cars

Avg. Paid:$18,413 - $24,551 Honda Civic
2013 Honda Civic Reviews, Pictures and Prices | U.S. News Best Cars

The Prius C is only a few hundred dollars more than the Civic not $5,633.
Okay, I didn't do a price comparison just pasted that info. I still stand behind the fact that if you want to save money, and use less fossil fuel a Hybrid is not the way to go unless you have a very short commute. If you want to make a statement, help advance Hybrid tech and have a short commute then they are the way to go.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,715 posts, read 11,494,237 times
Reputation: 5606
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
Many said the gas-powered car would never be a viable technology to replace oat powered horses or that steam would never be a viable tecnology to replace sail or that flight was a neat parlor trick but would never be a viable technology for mass transportation, eh?

Luddites unite!

You have nothing to lose but the new-fangled conveniences you enjoy everyday.
I'm waiting for someone to claim that gas, steam and aircraft are unconstitutional to be used by government since they aren't specifically mentioned in the Constitution.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,166,905 times
Reputation: 27563
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
Okay, I didn't do a price comparison just pasted that info. I still stand behind the fact that if you want to save money, and use less fossil fuel a Hybrid is not the way to go unless you have a very short commute. If you want to make a statement, help advance Hybrid tech and have a short commute then they are the way to go.
I agree and posted earlier that it's not viable outside of dense urban areas that have installed charging stations.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:39 AM
 
29,513 posts, read 16,270,693 times
Reputation: 13694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaylenwoof View Post
But you failed to address the central point of my post. Why did the cars have to be destroyed? Many of the people driving the cars didn't want to give them up. Why not just let people keep driving the cars? Political pressure killed those cars, not pure economics.
They were destroyed because GM would have been legally obligated to provide parts for them for 10 years.
Quite an expensive proposition given the technology was proven to be not viable.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,166,905 times
Reputation: 27563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
They were destroyed because GM would have been legally obligated to provide parts for them for 10 years.
Quite an expensive proposition given the technology was proven to be not viable.
What really happened though were middle class people turning in their low mileage trucks and SUVs.
Not many poor could afford or qualify for car loans.

Cash for Clunkers Two Years Later - KickingTires
The program sent used Explorers, Ford F-150 pickup trucks, Jeep Grand Cherokee SUVs and other low-mpg vehicles to wrecking yards in exchange for $3,500 or $4,500 vouchers toward more fuel-efficient replacements: brand-new Toyota Corollas, Honda Civics, Ford Focuses and the like.
..
"The people who really had these clunkers, most of them weren’t qualified to buy a new vehicle," says Merriman, who has worked at the used-car dealership for 40 years.
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