Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-05-2013, 03:35 AM
 
Location: Where they serve real ale.
7,242 posts, read 7,905,875 times
Reputation: 3497

Advertisements

When the 1994 Federal assault weapon ban was passed, gun manufacturers took immediate action to 'sporterize' assault weapons that were banned. These changes enabled them to circumvent the law with new models that were legal. Opponents of the assault weapon (AW) argue that kept the law from being a useful tool for crime.

Critics point to FBI crime statistics before and after the AW ban as evidence it was ineffective. But that's a not so clever attempt to show cause and effect. It diverts attention from data that shows the ban was effective.

To get an accurate picture of the effect of the assault weapon ban, you have to look at data about assault weapons used in crimes, not overall crime trends. The relevant set of data is gun traces by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) -- guns that were used in crimes, including assault weapons.

The Department of Justice funded a study of ATF gun trace data to produce a report on the effectiveness of the assault weapons ban. The report is "Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003", July 2004.

Figure 6-1 is Police Recoveries of Assault Weapons Reported to ATF (1990-2002). Section 6.2.2.1 has a further explanation of figure 6-1: Quote:
Quote:
6.2.2.1 As shown in Figure 6-1, AWs declined from 5.4% of crime gun traces in 1992-1993 to 1.6% in 2001-2002, a decline of 70%.
Crime Gun Solutions LLC, a firm of former law enforcement officials, is a leading source of crime-gun expertise. It reported
Quote:
In the five year period (1990-1994) before enactment of the Federal Assault Weapons Act, assault weapons named in the Act constituted 4.82% of the crime gun traces ATF conducted nationwide. Since the law's enactment, however, these assault weapons have made up only 1.61% of the guns ATF has traced to crime - a drop of 66% from the pre-ban rate.
The government funded an earlier study of the AW ban that issued a report in 2001. It said deaths from firearms were increasing during the the 1980s and peaked in 1993 at 39,595. The Brady Law and the Assault Weapons Act went into effect in 1994. Following that, firearm deaths per year dropped to 29,573 in 2001, a drop of 25% from the 1994 level.

Data points (1999 and 2000 gun traces)

ATF 2000 general findings
Quote:
The imported North China Industries 7.62mm rifle constitutes 6 percent (1,151) of all long gun trace requests and ranks third for long guns among all age groups.
ATF 1999 general findings
Quote:
The imported North China Industries 7.62mm rifle constituted 6 percent (873) of all long gun trace requests, the third most frequent trace requests for long guns among all age groups.

Table 8b shows that for all age groups, the North China Industries Model SKS 7.62mm caliber rifle is the rifle model most frequently encountered by law enforcement officers. The North China Industries Model MAK90 7.62mm caliber rifle is also encountered in significant numbers, and the Colt Model AR15 .223 caliber rifle is among the long guns most frequently recovered from adult possessors. These rifles, as well as most other rifles, will pose an enhanced threat to law enforcement, in part, because of their ability to expel projectiles at velocities that are capable of penetrating the type of soft body armor typically worn by the average police officer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-05-2013, 04:08 AM
 
Location: Behind enemy lines
709 posts, read 656,561 times
Reputation: 717
Neat.

Ban them again. See what happens.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2013, 05:05 AM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,356,787 times
Reputation: 7990
whole thing is an "alice in wonderland" exercise. I have 2 Springfield M1A rifles, both purchased in the 1990's. One is an "assault weapon" under the 1994 'AWB' law. The other isn't. They are fully identical, except that the 'assault weapon' gun has a bayonet attachment point.

Now would you be less likely to be shot with the M1A with the bayonet lug after 1994? Arguably, yes, because it went up in value, and was much more likely to be stored away, rather than taken out and shot. I have never fired mine. I have several other M1A's that I take when I go shooting.

So statistically, yes, I can see where the AWB did tend to remove the pre-ban guns from circulation. But only a delusional, raving, IMBECILE would define "effectiveness" as getting shot with an M1A w/o bayonet lug, as opposed to with. And that is exactly what this purported analysis does.

So instead of a 'myth,' now we've got a raving delusion...I'm not sure that's progress.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2013, 05:13 AM
 
Location: 77441
3,160 posts, read 4,366,059 times
Reputation: 2314
blah blah blah
you havent done anything but cherry pick information to suite your purpose.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2013, 05:20 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,382,997 times
Reputation: 8672
This is not a one to one correlation.

Yes, after the assault weapons ban, violence decreased. Also, it was after the first gulf war, did that have the same effect on violence?

The decrease in crime in the mid 90s into the 21st century was about economic growth. Its why crime is increasing now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2013, 05:21 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts
10,029 posts, read 8,344,311 times
Reputation: 4212
This was an assault weapon under the previous federal ban:




This was not:





Please explain again how the ban was effective. Thanks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2013, 05:27 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,880 posts, read 15,194,933 times
Reputation: 5240
Quote:
The imported North China Industries 7.62mm rifle constituted 6 percent (873) of all long gun trace requests, the third most frequent trace requests for long guns among all age groups.

Table 8b shows that for all age groups, the North China Industries Model SKS 7.62mm caliber rifle is the rifle model most frequently encountered by law enforcement officers. The North China Industries Model MAK90 7.62mm caliber rifle is also encountered in significant numbers, and the Colt Model AR15 .223 caliber rifle is among the long guns most frequently recovered from adult possessors. These rifles, as well as most other rifles, will pose an enhanced threat to law enforcement, in part, because of their ability to expel projectiles at velocities that are capable of penetrating the type of soft body armor typically worn by the average police officer.

guess what, the smaller the caliber of the bullet, the more likely it is to go through body armor. so 22 LR is more likely than 556 to go through a cops or private citizens body armor. I do notice that you like to pick and choose what information you have in your OP.

no matter what rifle a person shoots, some calibers will always go through body armor. I have more than 1 rifle at home that will go through level 3 body armor with level 4 plates very easily.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2013, 05:34 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts
10,029 posts, read 8,344,311 times
Reputation: 4212
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
guess what, the smaller the caliber of the bullet, the more likely it is to go through body armor. so 22 LR is more likely than 556 to go through a cops or private citizens body armor. I do notice that you like to pick and choose what information you have in your OP.

no matter what rifle a person shoots, some calibers will always go through body armor. I have more than 1 rifle at home that will go through level 3 body armor with level 4 plates very easily.
You do know that caliber refers to the diameter of the bullet- right? Go to a unit converter and convert 5.56 mm to inches and see what you get.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2013, 05:37 AM
 
16,431 posts, read 22,194,526 times
Reputation: 9623
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
guess what, the smaller the caliber of the bullet, the more likely it is to go through body armor. so 22 LR is more likely than 556 to go through a cops or private citizens body armor..
The 5.56mm you refer to is also .22 caliber in diameter, but it has a heavier bullet and much more powder in the cartridge and is thus much more likely to penetrate body armor than a .22LR.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2013, 05:42 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,880 posts, read 15,194,933 times
Reputation: 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
The 5.56mm you refer to is also .22 caliber in diameter, but it has a heavier bullet and much more powder in the cartridge and is thus much more likely to penetrate body armor than a .22LR.


not actually, the 5.56 bullet is actually a .224 inch bullet, whereas a 22lr bullet is a .22 -.223 diameter bullet depending on the manufacturer. most tend to be on the .221 inch for a 22LR round. not much of a difference, but still a difference.

most reloaders that reload .223/5.56 would have already known this.

yes it can penetrate body armor, but any round can penetrate body armor if used properly. this is just an attempt by feinstein to get more type of crap banned. sort of like the bullet and plane debate, what a crock it is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:09 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top