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Old 02-09-2013, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,297,737 times
Reputation: 27564

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Quote:
Originally Posted by parried View Post
Alot of people get confused about them. One isn't really a handout like some of the Hatemongers would like you to believe (SSDI). When people say "handout", I think of regular capped welfare for single mothers and WIC. SSI is for people who didn't work long enough or haven't worked at all. What's strange is you are very much allowed to work (in a legal job) on both of them provided you follow some rules. The problem is these "rules" pretty much destroy any incentive the person could have gained from trying to work. The recipient is supposed to believe they are being productive by going back to work, but they are mostly just making it more difficult for themselves because they now risk getting penalized if there are errors in reporting the income earned. There are other issues too like the health insurance, etc. I've read stories about people on SSDI (the not-so-much a handout version) who started working and 2 years later they get letters from the SSA stating they owe $30K+ dollars in overpayments, even after these people did all the income reporting correctly. Turns out the SSA has alot of problems managing this kind of stuff, which again, is sad for people who really want to do better things with their life.

Here in massachusetts there is a state representative that has been working for a long time trying to bring all welfare/entitlement abuse to an end. Considering we are almost a total democrat state, you can guess how difficult something like this would be. She is a republican, but unlike most of them, she understands the other side of the issue which is people who really could use some help.

Abuse of the system does nothing but destroy the integrity of the system for those that genuinely need it. But it doesn't just stop with abuse.

Even if there was no abuse, the system itself would still be a problem because there is no real incentive to become productive. Like I said, the current "incentives" available are really just catch 22's and glass ceilings that bite people in the behind down the road.

We need to end abuse and bring some real incentive to the table. Not do away with welfare, but this time it needs to be as it was intended to be.
That's with almost every means tested program. Earn $1 over the limit and they remove thousands of dollars in benefits. There is no transition period.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:58 PM
 
1,923 posts, read 2,063,881 times
Reputation: 1818
I'm convinced that it is a deliberate way of keeping people poor. What else could it be?
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:58 AM
 
Location: Steeler Nation
6,868 posts, read 3,930,345 times
Reputation: 1596
Quote:
Originally Posted by belmont22 View Post
So I guess to you, unless someone is in a wheelchair, they're not "legit" disabled, they're just lying, dret?
Most of these so called disabilities these people have are minor and they are able to function, I am sure they are able to work some type of menial job and in most cases they would earn more money than they do on SS dis. I stopped at the local watering hole one day last week, I was looking for someone, there were 4 people there and guess what, 3 out of the 4 are on SS dis. If they can hang at the bar and drink, I am sure they can mop a floor or flip a burger. The fourth one does not work either, but I'm not sure what his gig is. I bug them all the time telling them they should be working and the answer I get is, "I'm looking". They have been looking for years, I am sure there is something they are qualified for.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:14 AM
 
Location: Steeler Nation
6,868 posts, read 3,930,345 times
Reputation: 1596
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2 View Post
I think people go too far in determining who is legitimately disabled. I think some level of compassion needs to be involved. It needs to not just be whether a person is capable of performing some type of work, but whether they are able to reasonably function in society.

I mean you can't use Stephen Hawking as an example to declare someone else capable of work. Hawking is a brilliant physicist and he is able to formulate his ideas without needing any of his limbs. That doesn't mean we should stop thinking of paralyzed people as disabled.

Depression may in fact disable someone. Just because most people are able to function even while clinically depressed, doesn't mean an individual's brain chemistry might not be so messed up they they are permanently severely depressed and unable to function.

In my opinion the criteria shouldn't be whether a person is so disabled that they are unable to perform any work at all.
Quote:
It should be whether they are disabled enough that having to work would destroy their quality of life.
I mean you don't need arms to be a Walmart greeter, so someone without arms is technically able to work. But we need to use some common sense. That person, even if able to perform some menial labor, is clearly disabled and can't function in society. Same with someone with severe chronic fatigue syndrome or chemical depression that doesn't respond to medication, etc.
I would bet working would improve their quality of life, helping to keep their mind off of the negetive. I have suffered from deppresion off and on for years and working helps me, sitting around doing nothing is the worst thing I/they can do. Now, if someone is completely debilitated to the point they are incapable of working, that is a different story. Too many people fake mental illness just to receive a check because it is easy to do, physical is not so easy to fake and most physical disibilities can be proven, mental, not so much.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:32 AM
 
28,206 posts, read 20,670,313 times
Reputation: 16593
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
When I was in college, I worked 40-55 hours a week and I bought my own food. I came out of college debt free, welfare handouts free and a good job history.

The way it's going, you should make sure your major is in social work so you can get a job handing out welfare checks and food stamps.

When I went through college I was working full time, on food stamps and received financial aid. More than one way to skin a cat. I graduated magna *** laude too.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:34 AM
 
28,206 posts, read 20,670,313 times
Reputation: 16593
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
That's with almost every means tested program. Earn $1 over the limit and they remove thousands of dollars in benefits. There is no transition period.

Fixing this would save a ton of money and advance welfare reform in a major way. Good post.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:42 AM
 
28,206 posts, read 20,670,313 times
Reputation: 16593
ADA Amendments Act of 2008 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This gives a good overview of why certain things are considered disabilities as well as the amendments made to the 1973 law.

By the way, saying someone is no longer disabled because they have a wheelchair or hearing aids or an artificial limb is both incorrect and ignorant.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Phila Pa
2,733 posts, read 1,935,945 times
Reputation: 1039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider275452 View Post
Most of these so called disabilities these people have are minor and they are able to function, I am sure they are able to work some type of menial job and in most cases they would earn more money than they do on SS dis. I stopped at the local watering hole one day last week, I was looking for someone, there were 4 people there and guess what, 3 out of the 4 are on SS dis. If they can hang at the bar and drink, I am sure they can mop a floor or flip a burger. The fourth one does not work either, but I'm not sure what his gig is. I bug them all the time telling them they should be working and the answer I get is, "I'm looking". They have been looking for years, I am sure there is something they are qualified for.
Disability law states that if one is unable to do the work they are "accustomed to doing" then they should be considered. Of course a lot has to do with age. Someone in their mid 50's that held a labor job making 50 grand a year develops arthritis in the legs or bad knees, and can no longer be on their feet for long periods of time qualifies for SSDI. Sure they may be able to do work sitting down, but with no skills their earning potential is greatly reduced, and most likely less then what they would get on SSDI.
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:59 AM
 
18,112 posts, read 10,297,969 times
Reputation: 13216
Quote:
Originally Posted by parried View Post
I'm convinced that it is a deliberate way of keeping people poor. What else could it be?
Oh; every program that indemnifies folks from some unforeseen problem is a government conspiracy to keep them poor while personal and individual responsibility has no bearing on accessing these bennies at all?

I regularly watch the folks down here charge into the parking lots to get the disabled spots then actually run into the store to make sure they get the last available scooter.

They and their doctor have defrauded your government; not the other way around.
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:06 AM
 
18,112 posts, read 10,297,969 times
Reputation: 13216
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzy jeff View Post
Disability law states that if one is unable to do the work they are "accustomed to doing" then they should be considered. Of course a lot has to do with age. Someone in their mid 50's that held a labor job making 50 grand a year develops arthritis in the legs or bad knees, and can no longer be on their feet for long periods of time qualifies for SSDI. Sure they may be able to do work sitting down, but with no skills their earning potential is greatly reduced, and most likely less then what they would get on SSDI.
Making tax payer funded benefits available without any attempt at requiring employers to provide some retraining to allow these "disabled" workers to perform other, less physically demanding, jobs within the company with some tax incentives for the company seems counterproductive to me.

Take a portion of the money currently handed out in disability benefits and earmark it for employers to offset the costs of re-training or even job creation to make these folks productive again and you'd be spending your money on pro-active rather than re-active (too late) resolutions to this.
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