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Old 02-07-2013, 06:47 AM
 
Location: Fredericktown,Ohio
6,954 posts, read 4,419,532 times
Reputation: 2764

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I am for some other tax system and the main reason is so we can move on from fighting over trickle down {30 plus years} and the 5% {20 plus years}It makes our govt look like a bunch of uneducated apes to continue addressing the same issue over and over. If you were responsible of solving a problem in the private sector you would never get 20 plus years and still be working on it.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:59 AM
 
11,780 posts, read 8,587,835 times
Reputation: 3425
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
We believe because it is so logical, and has been proven over and over again.

The Obama economy is a perfect example. No business expansion, no jobs, nobody making money.

None of you liberals are making a case for Obama's handling of the economy, I notice, because there is nothing to boast about. The poor are living off of government handouts (and doing very well).

The Obama administration is breeding slothfullness. People don't care about a job when they are quite litterally paid more not to work. They never had it so good.
I am still waiting for examples of where trickle down has worked. I haven't seen any economic study that shows it works in the real world, just models showing that it could work in theory.

Corporate profits are at an all time high so you can't say nobody is making any money.Companies won't hire unless there is a need and demand for their products and services they offer. Take my dad's company for example, he redesigned his acct. dept, cut 9 jobs and designed them so a third of the workforce is doing the same amount of work. Those jobs won't be coming back to his company until there is a need, but he is making record high profits.

How exactly can you make more money living off social welfare than working? Section 8 has a LONG waitlist and food stamps require you to make very little money to qualify, and job corps programs provide you with training so you can get a job. There may be more programs out there, but I'm not aware of them.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:15 AM
 
66,437 posts, read 30,294,925 times
Reputation: 8660
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
You probably think $125 per month isn't all that much to a burger flipper, right?

Especially after he pays his fair share of your flat tax.
If a burger flipper is living beyond his means, he needs to downsize/downgrade his living arrangements. If he doesn't wish to do so he needs to work harder and/or smarter.

And with a flat tax, a burger flipper would be paying very little tax while a licensed professional, M.D., etc., would be paying A LOT more.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:37 AM
 
14,298 posts, read 8,105,288 times
Reputation: 4247
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
I am still waiting for examples of where trickle down has worked. I haven't seen any economic study that shows it works in the real world, just models showing that it could work in theory.

Corporate profits are at an all time high so you can't say nobody is making any money.Companies won't hire unless there is a need and demand for their products and services they offer. Take my dad's company for example, he redesigned his acct. dept, cut 9 jobs and designed them so a third of the workforce is doing the same amount of work. Those jobs won't be coming back to his company until there is a need, but he is making record high profits.

How exactly can you make more money living off social welfare than working? Section 8 has a LONG waitlist and food stamps require you to make very little money to qualify, and job corps programs provide you with training so you can get a job. There may be more programs out there, but I'm not aware of them.
First of all, the term "trickle-down" economics were used by Regan's opponents to describe his supply-side economics policy. So when you here some lib trots out the term "trickle down economics" and starts to beat it with a stick, it is a kind of red herring, since no one was promoting anything called trickle down. The term implies that you give all the wealth to the rich, and as they spend it the peasants down below get a few scraps.

It's difficult to demonstrate that a specific tax policy is responsible for changes in the economy, because there are always a million other factors at work, so we use a combination of common sense and measurable market trends.

The argument here, is do we favor a system where the state, local and federal governments take 60% of a person's income, because politicians and bureaucrats can spend it more wisely, choose which products and technologies they like, instead of allowing the individuals to spend or invest their income in ways that benefit them, or on those things that they want and desire.

Liberals tend to credit the government with an all-knowing ability to spend other people's money, thru Keynesian stimulus economic policies, beter then the people could spend their own money. If people wonder why our markets don;t seem to be operating very well, it's because our government has cut out 50% of the private sector influence on the market, and replaced it with politburo types, who are deciding how they think the market should function.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:16 AM
 
33,046 posts, read 22,039,041 times
Reputation: 8970
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
If a burger flipper is living beyond his means, he needs to downsize/downgrade his living arrangements. If he doesn't wish to do so he needs to work harder and/or smarter.

And with a flat tax, a burger flipper would be paying very little tax while a licensed professional, M.D., etc., would be paying A LOT more.

But we've already agreed that in your ideal world, a burger flipper must pay MORE in order to live than a licensed professional needs to pay in order to live.

You've already said you're unwilling to allow a willing seller to sell said burger flipper a tiny property he can afford to buy, which means he cannot escape paying the extra $125 rental property tax you claim isn't all that much. He must also pay a landlord profit margin on top of all the landlord costs he must bear in order to keep his landlord happy.

So you have already imposed a substantial burden on the burger flipper, and you have the unmitigated gall to say he needs to downsize/downgrade his living arrangements if he is living beyond the means YOU have inflated?

Under your fair flat tax, the burger flipper pays $125 (extra property tax) PLUS a flat income tax. WhyTF should he pay MORE tax than a higher income homeowner?

Why are you not seeing the class warfare YOU are waging?
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:21 AM
 
66,437 posts, read 30,294,925 times
Reputation: 8660
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
But we've already agreed that in your ideal world, a burger flipper must pay MORE in order to live than a licensed professional needs to pay in order to live.
No, we haven't. A burger flipper can have a much more modest living arrangement, no car, plain clothing, etc., and pay FAR less than a licensed professional pays in living expenses.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:28 AM
 
33,046 posts, read 22,039,041 times
Reputation: 8970
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
No, we haven't. A burger flipper can have a much more modest living arrangement, no car, plain clothing, etc., and pay FAR less than a licensed professional pays in living expenses.

The licensed professional has the same living options as a burger flipper, i.e. can choose to have the same non-housing consumption as the burger flipper.

The licensed professional's ability to own his home affords him the ability to enjoy the same consumption as the burger flipper AT A LOWER COST. (Of course, he also has the option of spending the same amount on living expenses as the burger flipper, and enjoying greater consumption than the burger flipper.)

Before you laugh, I personally know a retired architect who owns his home free and clear and enjoys rental income by renting out his spare bedrooms. I have also known several others who bought homes and lived in them for free by renting out spare bedrooms and collecting rental income.

Why do you want to gouge burger flippers?
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,482 posts, read 8,832,601 times
Reputation: 2527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
He had the lowest tax rates on the top earners in history until this Jan. That's trickle down.

Can we stop this asinine idea that he has redistributed wealth? I think the Obama administration has been awful on the economy. We should have cut defense more, spent less, tie more restrictions to wall street banks, the list goes on and on.

But he hasn't taxed any higher, in fact less then the bush administration, until this year, and the tax increases were miniscule.

I know we can't tax our way out of this, cuts are needed, both sides are to blame for not cutting in a way acceptable to the American voter, so they just keep spending.

But trickle down doesn't work. Every economic model proves this.

What works? Expanding the middle class. Could mean government middle class jobs, could be allowing the economy to grow while capping spending to inspire investment.
we have the most people on food stamps that is trickle down Dem style
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,482 posts, read 8,832,601 times
Reputation: 2527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swingblade View Post
I am for some other tax system and the main reason is so we can move on from fighting over trickle down {30 plus years} and the 5% {20 plus years}It makes our govt look like a bunch of uneducated apes to continue addressing the same issue over and over. If you were responsible of solving a problem in the private sector you would never get 20 plus years and still be working on it.
Fair tax progrm
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:39 AM
 
33,046 posts, read 22,039,041 times
Reputation: 8970
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
we have the most people on food stamps that is trickle down Dem style

High rents = more people on food stamps = GOP trickle down
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