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Old 02-08-2013, 02:50 PM
 
13,180 posts, read 13,049,245 times
Reputation: 4532

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torpedos View Post
i realized that it matters who is in charge. if obama does it, it is OK. if romney was president, the people would have jumped on it and called him a killer of americans. no different than the bush lovers. when he made the patriot act they loved it. if obama would do the same patriot act, the bush lovers would oppose him. it is all an illusion.
Right, but in this forum we have partisans that are more concerned about scoring some slam on "the other guys", rather than giving credit to people on both sides that have stuck to their principles. As a liberal I've stood on principle and there are some libertarians/real conservatives here that have done the same. But we have to put up with these party partisans that smear the whole lot of us and think we're personally responsible for what Obama, or Hillary, or Boehner does.
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Old 02-08-2013, 03:47 PM
 
882 posts, read 1,775,928 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
What? Your evidence that liberals were hypocrites about the Yoo memo has to do with the Authorization to Use Force in Iraq?
??? Are we both speaking (well, swyping in my case) English?

Quote:
That came before the release of the Yoo memo
No kidding.
Quote:
And a wholly different issue
Incorrect - I'm referring to the media tone & coverage, and providing examples. You seem unwilling or unable to understand that there was a very different set of reactions to a milder set of circumstances during the previous administration than there is today.

Quote:
Please try harder. It's obvious you are here to score some partisan point. You've off now gone on some confused tangent.
And it's obvious that you seem to like to hurl invectives. I, however, am sticking w/my observations & commentary. If that confuses you, well, that doesn't reflect on me.

I note too that you refuse to answer the OP;
"I would like to know which Democrats are opposing Obama's attacks on Civil Liberties, expansion of Middle East conflict and expansion of Executive Powers justified by the Middle East conflict".

I would take it further and ask "which Democrats/leftists opposed the previous Administrations efforts vis a vis said memo who now oppose..."
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:01 PM
 
77,900 posts, read 33,252,383 times
Reputation: 15573
Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
What? Your evidence that liberals were hypocrites about the Yoo memo has to do with the Authorization to Use Force in Iraq?

That came before the release of the Yoo memo? And a wholly different issue.

Please try harder. It's obvious you are here to score some partisan point. You've off now gone on some confused tangent.
I agree with a good bit of your point but the media was all over the torture issue with Bush. Assassination is a step beyond that and there is nowhere near the coverage or outrage. I believe many liberals are upset here. Unfortunately we hold "conservatives" and "liberals" responsible for the actions of the media and politicians which is hardly fair.
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Austin
29,518 posts, read 16,420,293 times
Reputation: 8061
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwm1964 View Post
For those who support Obama I have a few questions.

Does his extension of the Patriot Act concern you?
Does the NDAA (indefinite detainment) concern you?
Does the justification to use deadly force via drones against U.S. citizens overseas concern you?

Do you see an authoritarian side to President Obama or do you believe this is just exaggeration and political slant/bias?



For those who oppose Obama I have a few questions.

Did the creation of the Patriot Act concern you?
Do you believe expansion of the Executive Branch under Bush was wise?
Do you believe the long term military occupation of foreign sovereign nations is justified?
Do you believe the continued militarization of domestic police under the guise of War on Drugs is wise?

For both groups.

Do you think powers granted under one parties administration will not be used/exploited by the other party?
Do you truly believe either party is concerned with limiting government encroachment upon civil liberties?

I support the GOP right now because I see it currently as the lesser of two evils, however I don't really see much difference between the parties in regards to the expansion of government authority, the indiscriminate growth of spending and the promotion of international interests over domestic business.
You have one major error. The Dems love corporate welfare.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
2,223 posts, read 1,588,252 times
Reputation: 884
Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
Right, but in this forum we have partisans that are more concerned about scoring some slam on "the other guys", rather than giving credit to people on both sides that have stuck to their principles. As a liberal I've stood on principle and there are some libertarians/real conservatives here that have done the same. But we have to put up with these party partisans that smear the whole lot of us and think we're personally responsible for what Obama, or Hillary, or Boehner does.
I think you might appreciate this young man's protest.

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Old 02-08-2013, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Soldotna
2,268 posts, read 1,799,560 times
Reputation: 1067
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwm1964 View Post
I think you might appreciate this young man's protest.
Wait... Did he win his lawsuit??? It doesn't say.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
2,223 posts, read 1,588,252 times
Reputation: 884
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonymouseX View Post
Wait... Did he win his lawsuit??? It doesn't say.
I'm sorry, that is an older article.
Yes, he did win his lawsuit.

Kudo's to this creative young man who is a critical thinker and understands the importance of the Constitution.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Soldotna
2,268 posts, read 1,799,560 times
Reputation: 1067
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwm1964 View Post
I'm sorry, that is an older article.
Yes, he did win his lawsuit.

Kudo's to this creative young man who is a critical thinker and understands the importance of the Constitution.
Awesome! +1
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:46 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 60,475,092 times
Reputation: 22275
I don't support Obama but he and others are making US citizenship completely meaningless.

Dual citizenship is creating a whole lot of US citizens with allegiances to other nations, and Obama is planning to hand out citizenship like food stamps to anyone who makes it over the border illegally.

America haters such as Al Queda can very easily get US citizenship.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Soldotna
2,268 posts, read 1,799,560 times
Reputation: 1067
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I don't support Obama but he and others are making US citizenship completely meaningless.

Dual citizenship is creating a whole lot of US citizens with allegiances to other nations, and Obama is planning to hand out citizenship like food stamps to anyone who makes it over the border illegally.

America haters such as Al Queda can very easily get US citizenship.
Dual citizenship has been around forever...

How is that Obama's fault?
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