Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 02-10-2013, 04:18 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,745,522 times
Reputation: 20030

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
I also wonder what criteria would constitute mental illness.

I lost a daughter in a car accident a few years ago and was on Paxil for a few months. Would that be considered a problem?

Adam Lanza wasn't diagnosed with a mental illness.
this is the hardest part of denying people their rights due to mental illness. what determines a level of mental illness to would prevent someone losing their rights, and what mechanism would be needed for that person to have their rights restored? and who makes the determination that a person with minor depression for instance should lose their rights?

while i agree that those with mental illness, real mental illness not minor bouts of depression, should never be allowed to own firearms, where is the demarcation line?

 
Old 02-10-2013, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,209,134 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmeraldCityWanderer View Post
Firstly, I would like to see where this comes from...because I severely doubt it's remotely real.

Secondly, if some one has a record...does that mean they deserve to die? If your brother was walking through the park and some one mugs him and shoots him in the head, does having a record mean he was just waiting to be shot?

How many people at Sandy Hook/Century 16 theater in Aurora/Tucson had records and were engaging in criminal activity? If they had records was it not murder that they died?

The fact of the matter is that Canada has had good gun control for years. Gun crime rates are 6 times less then Americas (per capita), criminals don't go hopping over the boarder to get the guns illegally, and they haven't turned into some fascist/communist gulag of a dictatorship. The other part is they have better mental health care then the US, for the more crazy gunners, but one without the other is only a half ***ed attempt at the problem.

Nothing will eliminate the whole problem, but in any other arena if some one said they could knock down deaths by 6 times people would be screaming to do it. With guns it seems like a background check, which people go through to get even the most basic service jobs at McDonald's, is dismissed as some crazy idea.

If we want these checks for people that serve us terrible food, or take care of our kids, or even drive buses...why is it crazy to want them for those that carry deadly weapons?
Are you implying that ll gun owners carry without licenses to do so? I never carry mine except to go to the range. I bought it to shoot at the range and to use as protection at home and nothing els.
 
Old 02-10-2013, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,209,134 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid View Post
I am just curious how all of these laws will be enforced..
Once all the guns have been taken up enforcing the laws will be very easy. But they won't be taken up in sufficient numbers to allow enforcement.
 
Old 02-10-2013, 04:45 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,934,632 times
Reputation: 7314
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Let me ask you this - what responsibility does Nancy Lanza have in the deaths of the children in Sandy Hook? ?
she was an unwitting accomplice to mass murder, and not, in any way, a victim.
 
Old 02-10-2013, 04:51 PM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,522,222 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
she was an unwitting accomplice to mass murder, and not, in any way, a victim.
You know that ... how? Did she hand him the gun or did she reloaded for him?

Was it not possible that he murdered her in order to get to her guns?
 
Old 02-10-2013, 04:58 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,934,632 times
Reputation: 7314
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
You know that ... how? Did she hand him the gun or did she reloaded for him?

Was it not possible that he murdered her in order to get to her guns?
Having powerful guns around someone as nuts as her son made her nuts.

It would be like offering Atta's kid, if he had one, the use of a 747.
 
Old 02-10-2013, 06:09 PM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,522,222 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Having powerful guns around someone as nuts as her son made her nuts.

It would be like offering Atta's kid, if he had one, the use of a 747.

Around as how? Maybe they were safely locked away. You don't know anything.
 
Old 02-10-2013, 06:15 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,934,632 times
Reputation: 7314
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Around as how? Maybe they were safely locked away. You don't know anything.
Her son was a long-term ticking time bomb. If she wanted those guns, she should not have allowed him to live there. He was 20, so the state could not make her take him in.
 
Old 02-10-2013, 06:27 PM
 
71 posts, read 60,528 times
Reputation: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I'm really struggling with this issue because of a recent situation with a family member.

My family is a "gun family." Lots of military veterans, lots of rural lifestyle, including hunting, target practice, etc. We've never had an accident involving a gun. Both my parents and I have actually used a gun to protect ourselves and stop a crime (none of us had to actually fire a weapon - just the presence of a weapon was enough).

We store our weapons in safes.

My brother is 41. He has been a gun collector all his life. He has abused substances for decades. Though he is intelligent and has had many advantages in life (handsome, college educated, owned his own business at one time, married a professional, educated woman, bought a nice house, etc.) I believe that he has had a personality disorder for most of his life. His substance abuse added to his problems. Long story short, he had a total psychotic breakdown several months ago after his wife left him and he lost his job (he had already lost his business several years before due to his irresponsible behavior and drug use). During this breakdown, he committed several felonies. He was involuntarily committed, and his official diagnosis is a Cluster B personality disorder and schizophrenia. His medical team has told us that he has brain damage from substance abuse.

He has been on various medications now since November and I just went to see him a few days ago - and he is completely insane - delusional, seeing things, hearing voices, the whole nine yards. He has been deemed incompetent to stand trial and will most likely go to a state mental facility for the criminally insane.

However, they won't be able to keep him there forever. He will eventually be out. Then what?

Of course it is now illegal for him to own or possess a firearm.

I think that anyone - ANYONE - who allows him to buy or possess, or have access to, firearms would be criminally negligent. And I think they should be prosecuted as criminally negligent, or even as an accessory to a crime if he used a firearm in a crime. But how do we as a society track this? The only way I can see it working, even halfway working, is to have a universal database of felons and the mentally ill, and to require a background check for any firearms purchase, both private and public sales. But how do we enforce this if guns aren't registered? I mean, what if Joe Blow has an unregistered gun and he just DOESN'T run a background check and sells it to my brother? How could the transaction even be traced if it was a cash deal, if the weapon was used in a crime?

But the bigger question is this - how do we actually STOP a criminal from selling an unregistered gun to someone?

I don't see how a nationwide database would WORK wtihout a nationwide gun registry. And then I don't see how THAT would even work for anyone OTHER THAN law abiding citizens.

I also go back and forth on this next issue:

I realize that the actual incidence of homicides via firearm (and even suicides via firearms, which out rank homicides) are a low percentage when it comes to actual causes of death in this country. I realize that MOST people who use a firearm, as well as most VICTIMS of homicides via firearms, have a criminal record, and often the actual homicide occurs while BOTH parties are engaging in criminal activities.

But that being said, statistics suddenly become meaningless when you realize that your own brother is dangerous - to himself, to you, and to society in general.

Then I have the words of the DA still ringing in my ear: "When he gets out - arm yourself and be prepared to protect yourself. Law enforcement can't do much to protect you from him." As a law abiding, responsible citizen, I don't want to have to rely on law enforcement to protect me, especially when they are so clearly telling me that it's unrealistic to expect them to be able to protect our family. So part of me is skeptical of ANY government program which only would seem to track, with any real success, law abiding citizens.

I guess I am saying that at least we should have a national database of felons and the seriously mentally ill. At least that might stop responsible gun sellers from inadvertently selling a gun to a felon or a mental patient. But I can't see how it would stop a criminal from selling a gun. And I can't see criminals voluntarily registering guns.

It's a real dilemma to me.
Your story reflects the gun control issue in a nutshell. We can only hope that our lawmakers use intellect over emotion when passing any new legislation. They need to be sure that whatever they do that it will be effective in addressing the issue at hand and not just try to satisfy public outcry.
 
Old 02-10-2013, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,652 posts, read 60,572,966 times
Reputation: 101051
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
I also wonder what criteria would constitute mental illness.

I lost a daughter in a car accident a few years ago and was on Paxil for a few months. Would that be considered a problem?

Adam Lanza wasn't diagnosed with a mental illness.
I don't have a problem with how most states categorize a serious mental illness. Most states say that if you have been INVOLUNTARILY COMMITTED (and that commitment upheld by a TEAM of medical experts) then you are not allowed to own a firearm.

That's my understanding anyway. If someone else knows differently, please let me know.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:37 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top