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Old 02-17-2013, 01:51 AM
 
Location: Middle Earth
491 posts, read 747,210 times
Reputation: 194

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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
I have had one job where EVERY non-managment employees was paid minimum wage, no raises, ever.

I have had a different job where every non-management employee was paid within 25 cents of minimum wage, and the higher-paid employees had all been with the employer for over 10 years.
Yep for some reason they think that bosses just give raises all the time when many time the employees have to continually ask just to get a raise.
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:00 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,385,078 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by renault View Post
Only one as vapid, arrogant and clueless as Obama would one suggest raising the minimum wage during his own hand-made Depression.

Why Not a $100 Per Hour Minimum Wage?
If the government is going to raise the minimum wage, why stop at such a low wage rate? If higher minimum wages are so wonderful, why don't we just raise the minimum wage to $50 or $100 per hour?



State of the Union -- Minimum Wage and Education | The Adam Carolla Show | VPN - YouTube

Actually, while I think a preschool program would be unaffordable and should be rejected on that ground, the reality is that some parents SUCK ROCKS and need to be replaced yesterday.

Letting those kids suffer for at least one or two more years before they can be adequately assessed (and dealt with if necessary) is unconscionable. We don't need a preschool program for that, but there should be something in place to find the worst cases before the kids are effectively destroyed.
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:33 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,385,078 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmund_Burke View Post
In 2002, I worked for 2.90 per hour as a student at Berea college. I got experience aNd saved over 2k at the end of the year. The min. Wage hurts the least well off bc it prices them out of the job market. Incidentally, the typical kid drug dealer makes less than min.wage (freakonomics).

Berea has a great program that actually makes it feasible to literally work your way through college with meaningful work experience.. Of course, I was unaware of it when I went to college.

Dealing drugs gives street kids a level of autonomy they're never going to get in a conventional job, plus it gives them street cred they wouldn't get in a conventional job. (They'd get negative cred flipping burgers.)
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:41 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,385,078 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
Okay, so nobody has actually said making less money is good. What the people in Congress said was that a higher min wage hurts people that have no skills more and that a lower min wage makes it easier to gain a foothold in the workplace. This is true and we have economic studies that show this to be the case. You can have a min. wage in jobs that cannot be automated and cannot be outsourced, but not for jobs that can be eliminated.

Grocery stores have self checkout machines now and make you bag your own groceries. If you raise the min wage grocery stores will buy more self checkout equipment and the people that used to check out and bag your groceries will no longer have a job. Companies that employ call centers have been exporting those jobs to India. Will those jobs come back if you raise the cost of business? Legal research, some accounting jobs, and IT are examples of jobs that have been outsourced. Why would any other job be any different? I suppose, in theory you can raise the min wage if you devalue your currency enough, but then you don't really gain anything.

There aren't a whole lot of self-checkout lanes (yet) and the ones that exist tend to have limits on the number of items. Like express lanes that allow up to about say 8, 12, or 15 items, self-checkout lanes typically have similar limits. Also they require at least one employee to for security and certain service tasks, such as redeeming coupons and checking ID for alcoholic beverages.

I had an inbound telemarketing job and that is one type of call center unlikely to be exported to India.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:01 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,385,078 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Keegan View Post
Absolutely.
I know that I am able to perform a service that is worth far more than $5 per hour. As a result, I will no longer work for such a low rate of pay. However, I also know that there are many people who have not yet obtained the skills, knowledge, or experience to do what I do at the level I do it. As a result, I expect that those people will accept a lower rate of pay. They will work, they will be paid, and they will gain some experience that should help them become better at what they do, or exposure that will allow them to access a different job to which they may be better suited, and therefore able to command a higher rate of pay.

Why do you see this as a bad thing?

I've flipped burgers (literally), delivered pizzas, and worked in convenience stores. In these dead-end jobs, what skills, knowledge, and experience can be obtained to qualify one for a real job?

And I see this as a bad thing because people who need to work minimum wage jobs for a living will be undercut by subsidy kids (teens living at home who don't need to make a living, and college students working for beer money who also don't need to work for a living).
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:03 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,385,078 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmund_Burke View Post
Over 90% of American economists oppose minimum wage. It's ESP. Detrimental when it outstrips inflation. What happens if there is deflation like in the 1930s? Black unemployment has gone up and stayed relatively high since 1930 when the first federal minimum wage came into law.

Btw, Singapore has no min. Wage and a great standard of living.

How do minimum wage opponents justify restrictive zoning?
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:23 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,385,078 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt
Reality FAIL. Half of all minimum wage workers today are 25 or older.

Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
reality fail


76% are 25 or under...or over 65


Where's the fail? We are both correct; we merely spun the numbers differently.

Last time I checked, people over 65 are also over 25.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:30 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,385,078 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EugeneOnegin View Post
I doubt very many will be lost. Most fast food employees probably aren't that far off from $9/hour already, and many are above that. In some places they're probably almost all above that. Fast food places are usually pretty good on managing labor already.

There probably aren't many hours they can realistically cut, let alone jobs. If anything the employees they already have might lose a few hours a week, which for the macro economy would probably be offset by increased purchasing power of the ones below $9/hour.

If you have 4 people running a McDonalds on a Wednesday night, one making $7.85, one making $8.60, one making $9.50, and another making $10.00, each working a 6 hour shift, increasing the bottom 2 to $9/hour is going to cost you a whopping $9.30 extra plus taxes. As a percentage of say, $2,500 in sales, that's not much.

Just curious, how many older burger flippers do you see at McDonald's? I've heard some seniors have been hired to run the registers, but I've never seen anyone older than about 30 working the production end of fast food.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:35 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,385,078 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
as a percentage of profits, which is the realistic way to view this, that is SEVERAL percent of profits for that night.

Until the franchissee's finance team tells mgmt how many heads to cut overall to offset it.

Think they won't, and you have proven stupidity. Last time when it went to $7.25, Hardees and several others franchissees started using remote drive through people taking orders. That way, a call center, whether on or off shore, could have 50 people, instead of 100 locations having one each. Cut 100 jobs, share the costs, each facility gets hit for 1/2 an employee, where they had one per before. They simply had cameras showing food prep people the car and face of the customer, so they could match it up, w/o the customer ever knowing the first voice he/she heard was 1,000 miles away..or 5,000.

Most Americans know when the person who takes their order are 5,000 miles away, but not when they are 1,000 miles away.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:40 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,385,078 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by EugeneOnegin View Post
Actually, it's usually more like slightly less than half oppose minimum wage.

For example, this survey:

Table 2: Klein & Stern’s 2003 survey of AEA members
Minimum wage laws :
1. Support strongly 28.4%
2. Support mildly 18.9
3. Have mixed feelings 14.4
4. Oppose mildly 17.8
5. Oppose strongly 20.5
Have no opinion 0.4

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...,d.dmQ&cad=rja

There is no strong consensus either way.
I'd love to know how people who oppose strongly minimum wage can support restrictive zoning.

"I think an employer should be free to offer, say, $2 per hour, but landlords should not be free to profitably offer housing affordable to someone earning $2 per hour."

Say what?
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