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Old 02-14-2013, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,869 posts, read 26,508,031 times
Reputation: 25772

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Slavery was dying as an institution by the 1860s, because it wasn't cost effective any more (or was heading that way). Slaves were very expensive ($1000-2000 in the dollars of the time), and had to be fed and sheltered. And if they were injured or killed, the owner (as well as the slave of course) was SOL. The railroads and other hazardous construction projects (Erie Canal for example) were not done with slaves, because of the risk to the "investment". As we ended up with more and more imigrant labor, they were actualy cheaper to employe than slaves were to own.

Slavery could have been ended without a shot being fired. All it would have taken was the simple action of the federal government buying the slaves from their owners and then turning them loose. Instead, due to Lincoln's intransigance, he drove the country to a civil war that ended up costing 625,000 lives. Worse, he extended the war and cost more lives as leverage to pass the 13th amendment among NORTHERN states and representatives.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:04 PM
 
6,331 posts, read 5,210,320 times
Reputation: 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Slavery was dying as an institution by the 1860s, because it wasn't cost effective any more (or was heading that way). Slaves were very expensive ($1000-2000 in the dollars of the time), and had to be fed and sheltered. And if they were injured or killed, the owner (as well as the slave of course) was SOL. The railroads and other hazardous construction projects (Erie Canal for example) were not done with slaves, because of the risk to the "investment". As we ended up with more and more imigrant labor, they were actualy cheaper to employe than slaves were to own.

Slavery could have been ended without a shot being fired. All it would have taken was the simple action of the federal government buying the slaves from their owners and then turning them loose. Instead, due to Lincoln's intransigance, he drove the country to a civil war that ended up costing 625,000 lives. Worse, he extended the war and cost more lives as leverage to pass the 13th amendment among NORTHERN states and representatives.
<--shrugs, oh well, the south lost, accept it.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,869 posts, read 26,508,031 times
Reputation: 25772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Draper View Post
<--shrugs, oh well, the south lost, accept it.
Accept the loss of 625,000 American lives due to the arrogance of a president?
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:06 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,198,461 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Slavery was dying as an institution by the 1860s, because it wasn't cost effective any more (or was heading that way). Slaves were very expensive ($1000-2000 in the dollars of the time), and had to be fed and sheltered. And if they were injured or killed, the owner (as well as the slave of course) was SOL. The railroads and other hazardous construction projects (Erie Canal for example) were not done with slaves, because of the risk to the "investment". As we ended up with more and more imigrant labor, they were actualy cheaper to employe than slaves were to own.

Slavery could have been ended without a shot being fired. All it would have taken was the simple action of the federal government buying the slaves from their owners and then turning them loose. Instead, due to Lincoln's intransigance, he drove the country to a civil war that ended up costing 625,000 lives. Worse, he extended the war and cost more lives as leverage to pass the 13th amendment among NORTHERN states and representatives.
Dying?

Sorry, but even one more second of slavery was too long.

So yea, war was necessary.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:10 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,198,461 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
These numbers should really make you sad. Which makes me happy. I dont like people who like to see people die.

Union Casualties:
140k+ KIA
325K total dead
275K+ wounded

Confederate Casualties:
72K+ KIA
260K total dead
137K+ wounded
Lemme revise my earlier comments....

The Union deaths make me sad. Rebel deaths...not at all.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
30,370 posts, read 19,162,886 times
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[quote=Ferd;28246797]These numbers should really make you sad. Which makes me happy. I dont like people who like to see people die.

Me either. From this thread, it appears the Lincoln supporters support mass killing.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:11 PM
 
118 posts, read 208,240 times
Reputation: 163
love the statists' comments justifying murder, but as we all know the ends always justify the means in Amerika.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:12 PM
 
Location: St. Joseph Area
6,233 posts, read 9,481,332 times
Reputation: 3133
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmccullough View Post
Abraham Lincoln, our greatest President, was obligated to defend the United States against the attack by South Carolina forces at Fort Sumter, and was further obligated to defend the United States against an attemtped rebellion by the slave holding states.

The fact that he brought about the end of slavery and the fact that he preserved the Union are the two things that make him our greatest president.

I must say, though, that you're a bit off in your count. The total of our dead was almost 400,000, but I frankly don't care in the least how many of the enemy were killed.
Yup. I hate war, but I have no sympathy for the Confederacy. They brought that war and the century of economic and social backwardness on themselves.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:13 PM
 
20,458 posts, read 12,381,706 times
Reputation: 10254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Slavery was dying as an institution by the 1860s, because it wasn't cost effective any more (or was heading that way). Slaves were very expensive ($1000-2000 in the dollars of the time), and had to be fed and sheltered. And if they were injured or killed, the owner (as well as the slave of course) was SOL. The railroads and other hazardous construction projects (Erie Canal for example) were not done with slaves, because of the risk to the "investment". As we ended up with more and more imigrant labor, they were actualy cheaper to employe than slaves were to own.

Slavery could have been ended without a shot being fired. All it would have taken was the simple action of the federal government buying the slaves from their owners and then turning them loose. Instead, due to Lincoln's intransigance, he drove the country to a civil war that ended up costing 625,000 lives. Worse, he extended the war and cost more lives as leverage to pass the 13th amendment among NORTHERN states and representatives.
You are right. It could have been but it wasn’t. That was not Lincoln's fault. He did not fire on Ft. Sumter. Lincoln didn’t request the Army of the South meet the army of the north at Bull Run....twice.

As for intransigence, one could argue (and many historians have) that every president from Franklin Pierce to James Buchannan held vastly more responsibility for the Civil War than Lincoln.

What Abe did was committing to preventing the dissolution of the Union and he had the fortitude to withstand the casualties that commitment brought about.

(There are many here who think me an idiot when I say this, but it is my firm opinion that neither Lincoln nor any other leader at the time had any choice in the matter. The die was cast and before the dust was to settle America would pay a horrendous price).
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:14 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,852 posts, read 35,135,091 times
Reputation: 22695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
Lincoln's aggressive war against the Confederates caused 625,000 deaths. After 2 years of battle, he issued the Emancipatin Proclamation correcting the terrible wrong of slavery. Is aggressive action causing so many deaths negated by the EP?

If yes, compare freeing the Iraqis from slavery of Saddam and Bush causing 3500 deaths.

My opinion, both Lincoln and Bush were wrong to attack and cause the damage they caused.
Well, let's see. Let's all drive around the south side of Chicago, or Detroit at midnight and see what a good idea that was.

20yrsinBranson
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