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Old 02-15-2013, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
39,024 posts, read 51,075,331 times
Reputation: 28216

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Treasonous southerners! They should have driven out the lot of them after the war and let yankees move in and take the land like the southerners did from the Cherokee. The Trail of Tears II could have been rebel traitors getting what they deserved.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:16 PM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,928,755 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erehs059 View Post
Suppose I just don't get how working people can call themselves slaves these days. We do get paid, benefits, choose where we live, etc. The slavery I know about involved lynchings, rapes, no voting rights and so on. Nothing like true slavery.
Well, as long as we still have some choice and a good master, we shouldn't complain right?
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:18 PM
Status: "117 N/A" (set 3 days ago)
 
12,920 posts, read 13,611,483 times
Reputation: 9673
The plantation owners had become too powerful. By 1856 they controlled Washington, The Supreme court, and the Presidency. The election of Lincoln was an expression of the people that the South had become evil. Unfortunately the war was not fought because Slavery was immoral it was fought because Slavery was a political wrong. Lee himself said Slavery was a moral and political wrong. People often confuse the opposition to slavery to mean a person was a proponent of freedom and equality for slaves.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
142 posts, read 205,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
Well, as long as we still have some choice and a good master, we shouldn't complain right?
I never said we don't want better. My point is that what we have now is not the same as past slavery.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:23 PM
 
8,598 posts, read 9,093,828 times
Reputation: 5934
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmccullough View Post
Abraham Lincoln, our greatest President, was obligated to defend the United States against the attack by South Carolina forces at Fort Sumter, and was further obligated to defend the United States against an attemtped rebellion by the slave holding states.

The fact that he brought about the end of slavery and the fact that he preserved the Union are the two things that make him our greatest president.

I must say, though, that you're a bit off in your count. The total of our dead was almost 400,000, but I frankly don't care in the least how many of the enemy were killed.
The dead was over 600,000. Yes, it took 75 years from the formation of the US to free slaves at last. Was there another way, is the real question I think. One other thing that came out of the war was we are (for better or worse) a forced union.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Montgomery Village
4,112 posts, read 4,466,434 times
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Considering the History of the US, that was a bargain of a price to pay. Consider yourself lucky.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:37 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 36,975,677 times
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Originally Posted by Erehs059 View Post
So blacks owned white slaves?
This is the new dodge, conflating indentured servants with chattel slaves.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:38 PM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,928,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erehs059 View Post
I never said we don't want better. My point is that what we have now is not the same as past slavery.

Past slavery wasn't all the same either. Some slaves were treated like family, had freedom to travel without escort, some were given allowances for personal things, and when they got older and retired given a stipend of land for them and their families.

In fact, many slaves were treated the same as was common to "indentured servants" which was a common custom in Europe.

Point is, "past slavery" isn't a "one size fits all" evaluation, there were varying levels of "freedom" that slaves had. The only one that gets mentioned these days is the worst of the worst as if to claim that all slaves were like Roots.

The point is though that slavery is slavery, no matter how benevolent your master is.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:41 PM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,928,755 times
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Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
This is the new dodge, conflating indentured servants with chattel slaves.
Not at all. Some were treated as indentured servants and others as the latter. In fact, the north was known for being far more brutal to their slaves than the south that tended to treat them as a part of the family.

The belief that the south was some barbaric slave driver like we see in the movies is nothing more the propaganda driven by the North since the civil war.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:50 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 36,975,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
Not at all. Some were treated as indentured servants and others as the latter.
Sorry dude, but whites in the colonies or in the subsequent United States were not considered chattel slaves. You would be on better stead if you correctly pointed out that in the beginning both Europeans and Africans were being held as bonded servants, but it was with the establishment of the slave codes that the distinction between indentured servitude and black slavery was drawn.

Quote:
In fact, the north was known for being far more brutal to their slaves than the south that tended to treat them as a part of the family.
Please spare me the ignorance that your momma taught you in whatever home school you attended.
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