Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-29-2013, 09:14 PM
 
41,111 posts, read 25,618,642 times
Reputation: 13868

Advertisements

They run the government like Obama supporters run their own finances and it's a mess. It's all normal to them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-29-2013, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, IN
838 posts, read 980,016 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0618 View Post
As a conservative i agree there is a need for social programs but the federal goverment shouldnt be running them. The state level with a non elected board made up of some appointees of the govenor along with mostly community leaders and those who actually have vast years of experience helping the needy should be on the board. All in non paying positions with no way to profit from the money. Those should be the overseers of the social programs. Make it one big state level non profit.
At the state level? I have never understood conservatives odd obsession with states' rights. State governments are no different than the federal government, just a smaller jurisdiction - it is still government and moving these programs down a level only leads to cross-state inequity - it doesn't get rid of 'big government' at all, just places it at another level. Moreover, many of these programs are MORE efficient when at the federal level (basically think about economies-of-scale). Many states simply don't have the resources to run things like Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security - there is vast economic inequality between states and some of the states that benefit most from these programs, like Mississippi, are among the poorest and, therefore, least able to pay for them without Federal assistance (ironically, the states that tend to be net GAINERS of federal tax dollars - the poorer states - also tend to be the most conservative and anti-Federal government while states that pay more than they get back often are more liberal and support these programs more!).

Federalism is, in my opinion, a major part of the problem with governance in this country - unitary governments tend to be far more efficient, suffer from less debilitating corruption and are quicker and more effective in allocating tax dollars to areas where they need it.

Also, as an aside, just a bit of interesting info: Why do you think we call our primary subnational political units states? In English, outside of discussing US states, the term 'state' means the ENTIRE government at all levels for a given country. In international relations we often use the terms state, government and country interchangeably. This is because when we declared independence, many people, including many of our founding fathers, saw each of the 13 colonies as a fully free, sovereign and independent country. Our first constitution, the Articles of Confederation, did not declare the United States to be a sovereign country, rather it declared it a confederation of separate and sovereign states (ie. independent countries) that would govern themselves without any interference from one another except for a few limited exceptions, namely foreign policy. In truth, the US was NOT founded in 1776, but rather 1789 when the Articles of Confederation were scrapped and the United States Constitution was put into effect. Prior to 1789 Virginia, New York, Maryland, Massachusetts, etc were all sovereign, independent countries that merely had a close working relationship - the Articles of Confederation were more similar to a international treaty than a constitution. Thus, we refer to our subnational political units as 'states' because originally, from the end of the Revolutionary War until 1789, they were actually states - ie. independent countries.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-29-2013, 09:21 PM
 
1,923 posts, read 2,404,089 times
Reputation: 1826
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
What you need to do is re-educate them before "getting them back to work".
Many haven't graduated HS, have no skills and have spotty work records.

UT did a study about a decade ago on TANF recipients.
They read at 6th grade level.
They scored in the bottom quartile of the AFQT test which is an indicator of future employment and earnings.
Many of these poor are poor for more reasons than just not having a high paying job.
There's people with college degrees on food stamps. Your statistics are outdated. I believe that welfare is both a curse and a blessing. It helps people survive, but at the same time it changes people's mindsets. They become dependent and irresponsible.

Keep in mind, as far as the whole welfare abuse/explosion issue goes.....I am not as extreme as conservatives are. I look at both sides of the issue and not just one, and we all know what side conservatives focus on.

If a conservative wakes up on the wrong side of the bed, it's the welfare recipients fault.

If a conservative slips on a patch of ice, it's the welfare recipients fault.

Every thing that goes wrong in a conservatives life is the fault of welfare recipients. Everything.

Disabilities don't exist. They are just figments of our imagination. Every person with a disability on SSI and SSDI is a scam artist.

Right conservatives? Right? Come on, this is what you believe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-29-2013, 09:23 PM
 
41,111 posts, read 25,618,642 times
Reputation: 13868
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
You're trying to make people who don't have the ability to think critically understand a tragic but very harsh reality. Won't happen. They don't think. They only feel. Unfortunately, "feeling" is NOT going to make the unsustainable exponential growth of the welfare-dependent class somehow magically become sustainable.
Critical thinking is an important component of most professions. It is a part of formal education and is increasingly significant as students progress through university to graduate education.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-29-2013, 09:27 PM
 
41,111 posts, read 25,618,642 times
Reputation: 13868
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
Thank you for the response. It is as expected.
You think just like a whiner. It's an all or non for you.

lol you said, welfare moms give away their children when anyone who has an iota of common sense would think these moms should learn how to say NO and welfare dad should stop disrespecting the woman and man up and pay for their kids.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-29-2013, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, IN
838 posts, read 980,016 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I think liberals underestimate their welfare recipients. They really believe these people are so lazy that they would starve rather than find work, or that they would let their children starve rather than find work.

Conservatives have a higher opinion of the poor and think that the poor would actually do what our own ancestors did when they needed something -- find work. 30+ million illegals are here and have no problem finding plenty of jobs --- jobs that pay them plenty, enough for them to send billions of dollars home every month and eat, drink and drive cars and party.
It's largely a myth that 'welfare recipients' are lazy and don't work. In fact, the vast majority of people who do receive the type of welfare checks you refer to (be careful with the term 'welfare recipient' as anyone who receives Social Security - meaning anyone over 65 -, Medicare, Medicaid, Student Grants, etc are welfare recipients) DO work. The average person receiving government money and/or foodstamps due to poverty is a single mother. In more than 80% of these cases, welfare is a supplement to a low income. The problem is that single parents often can't make enough money from work to raise their children. Plus, if you are a single parent it's almost impossible to improve your career options because you don't have the freetime or finances to get more education. Furthermore, if you're a single parent you often need to pay for childcare so you can work - childcare in the US is notoriously expensive AND of low quality. So, in many cases you end up with poor working mothers who pay large parts of their income to childcare services just so they can work a low paying job - what's left after paying childcare is barely enough to feed themselves and their children, pay rent, electricity, etc.

Poverty is a vicious cycle, it's extremely difficult to escape. And having a job does not = getting out of poverty. The jobs that 'illegals' work that you refer to are almost entirely low-wage jobs, many illegally low (employers will hire the illegals to do awful jobs for extra long-hours at extremely low wages - these jobs aren't going to help get Americans out of poverty).

Personally, I recognize that many of our welfare programs are problematic but that doesn't mean that welfare itself is bad. Other countries have found ways to do it that are far more effective. We need more comprehensive means of attacking poverty as a whole - living wages, nationalized and free childcare so parents can afford to work, etc. Discussion for another time though...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-29-2013, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, IN
838 posts, read 980,016 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I think liberals underestimate their welfare recipients. They really believe these people are so lazy that they would starve rather than find work, or that they would let their children starve rather than find work.

Conservatives have a higher opinion of the poor and think that the poor would actually do what our own ancestors did when they needed something -- find work. 30+ million illegals are here and have no problem finding plenty of jobs --- jobs that pay them plenty, enough for them to send billions of dollars home every month and eat, drink and drive cars and party.
Forgot to mention one other thing; you talk about these illegals having jobs that 'pay them plenty, enough for them to send billions home every month...' - this is really just ridiculous. Look at the condition most live in - many illegals live in small apartments or homes with several other individuals. They tend to share vehicles, eat very cheap food and drink very cheap beer as their only entertainment. They send most of what little they earn home in the form of remittances and that money isn't a lot - but it's more than they can make in their country of origin where the GDP per Capita is far, far lower than it is here - in a country like, say, Nicaragua, $2 a day is a pretty decent income - you try living on that here. Couldn't even buy a full meal from McDonalds...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-29-2013, 09:35 PM
 
41,111 posts, read 25,618,642 times
Reputation: 13868
Start demanding that politicians and the IRS stop buying people and start using tax revenue more wisely and get off my back about paying more taxes then I'll listen. Until then, I really just don't care
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-29-2013, 09:38 PM
 
1,923 posts, read 2,404,089 times
Reputation: 1826
EXCLUSIVE: Dominican Republic scammers sell welfare food bought in NYC and shipped in barrels - NYPOST.com

Yes, it's wrong.

NO, that doesn't give you the right to demonize everyone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-29-2013, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, IN
838 posts, read 980,016 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by krieger00 View Post
The left want welfare programs and like to tell people mostly the poor that they are a victims . The left wants people poor and uneducated so they will vote for them.

It's conservatives that have fought tooth and nail to defund schools, eliminate the Department of Education, get rid of government-provided grants and low-interest loans for college....

Beyond saying that, I don't know what else to say given how ridiculous of a statement this is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top