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Old 10-23-2007, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,885,321 times
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Let's try to stay on topic. Doris Lessing!
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Small patch of terra firma
1,275 posts, read 2,162,800 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
Let's try to stay on topic. Doris Lessing!
It can be difficult when there are those who live in a vacuum and cannot see the difference between a country going through a continued series of attacks for 30 years versus NYC which had only 2 attacks in the last 14 years. Which area lives in more fear?

Every person, or writer, has their right to bring the concerns to light. Of course if the point is debatable, where is the debate? The ignorant dont like to debate the substance of a point made so they make tenous links not related to the point and think that it somehow undermines the point that was made.
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,885,321 times
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Frankly, I didn't disagree with your remarks, but one of my responsibilities is to keep threads on topic. It was derailed with NG's comments. It is often difficult not to respond, I grant that 100%.


Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000 View Post
It can be difficult when there are those who live in a vacuum and cannot see the difference between a country going through a continued series of attacks for 30 years versus NYC which had only 2 attacks in the last 14 years. Which area lives in more fear?

Every person, or writer, has their right to bring the concerns to light. Of course if the point is debatable, where is the debate? The ignorant dont like to debate the substance of a point made so they make tenous links not related to the point and think that it somehow undermines the point that was made.
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:57 PM
 
Location: SanAnFortWAbiHoustoDalCentral, Texas
791 posts, read 2,015,207 times
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Quote:
For a brief period of time, Arafat did offer the olive branch to try to create peace between the Palestinians and Israelis. It didnít work out in the end but the efforts towards peace were recognized at that time.
Sometimes the Nobel committee does get taken in. Unfortunately, this is one of those MOST obvious of times.
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
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However, Ms. Lessing won a Nobel Prize for Literature not one for Peace.

It is such a pity that context is abandoned in favour of another news headline.

Knut Hamsun won a Nobel Prize for Literature and he was a Quisling. He was also a fine writer.
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Old 10-23-2007, 05:23 PM
 
294 posts, read 398,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000 View Post



For a brief period of time, Arafat did offer the olive branch to try to create peace between the Palestinians and Israelis. It didnít work out in the end but the efforts towards peace were recognized at that time.
he was playing "politics" the arab way. bold facing lying to get the world on his side while still conducting terror operations...

why that is so mind blowing is becasue that was blatantly obvious to alot of people and the educated, enlightened poeple on the Nobel board overlooked it.

additionally if bringing common knowledge to awarness is a standard for the "peace" prize, its really kind of sad. expecially for somebody in Gores position who could possibly do alot more, yet is hypocritical on his actions. although i may be ingnorant to alot of what its about, something with that prestige should have a little more to it.

with that being said that prestige isnt really all that much anymore just from those two examples, so the fact that whats her name won one to most people really means nothing or that she is just another person who won something for some abstract idealist poop.

i see what she is saying from a true and only numerical value of human life, i cant argue that, but poeple like that are also the types of people who say the holocaust wasnt that bad or any other disaster becasue the they are ignorant to what is happening at the time and the terror for the average person.

loss of life is loss of life, but when somebody has to make the choice of burning to death or jumping 147 stories to there death it is a little bigger then just a statistic or comparable to some of the loss of life from the IRA.

seems her belief and anti american view shines through (this is what it seems like to me) in her statement trying to downplay a pretty big friggin tragedy, which in turn will make us look like big bad arseholes who deserved it. additionally we should give all of our money to third world countries and let the EU or mexico run this one.

I know i exagerated the last part but anybody want to take a bet on weather i am right about her?

because of this...I do not wish her well at all
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Old 10-23-2007, 05:29 PM
 
2,506 posts, read 7,749,007 times
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/\Finally, someone who read what she won.
Lessing was born in Persia, and grew up in Colonial Africa. She has been a noted writer for fifty years, and she recently won the Nobel Prize in Literature for her work. It has nothinhg to do with Al Gore, or Arafat, or even World Peace. Anyone who says otherwise is insolent and ignorant. Lessing, unlike some posters on this thread, has the ability to see things on an overall scale. That is why she is a preeminent female author, and why you are ranting on an online forum about the sham of the Nobel Prize. Her statements about Sept. 11th are spot-on, she did not degrade the importance of Sept. 11th. She put an international tragedy in context, because few Americans has the fortitude to do so -- they knew some neocon would blast them, or call them unpatriotic. Luckily for any intellectual, Lessing is 88 years old, and prob. doesn't care what you have to say about her. The volume and depth of Mrs. Lessing's work transcends the uneducated banter leveled at her.
---Minnehahapolitan
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Old 10-23-2007, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,885,321 times
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And thank you for sharing some of Ms. Lessing's history. Her latest book probably talks to much of her thinking and philosophy...undoubtedly meditative about the times we live in, often the focus of her novels.

And as a long-time fan of Lessing, I applaud the Committee for honouring her, in her life-time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnehahapolitan View Post
/\Finally, someone who read what she won.
Lessing was born in Persia, and grew up in Colonial Africa. She has been a noted writer for fifty years, and she recently won the Nobel Prize in Literature for her work. It has nothinhg to do with Al Gore, or Arafat, or even World Peace. Anyone who says otherwise is insolent and ignorant. Lessing, unlike some posters on this thread, has the ability to see things on an overall scale. That is why she is a preeminent female author, and why you are ranting on an online forum about the sham of the Nobel Prize. Her statements about Sept. 11th are spot-on, she did not degrade the importance of Sept. 11th. She put an international tragedy in context, because few Americans has the fortitude to do so -- they knew some neocon would blast them, or call them unpatriotic. Luckily for any intellectual, Lessing is 88 years old, and prob. doesn't care what you have to say about her. The volume and depth of Mrs. Lessing's work transcends the uneducated banter leveled at her.
---Minnehahapolitan
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Old 10-23-2007, 05:42 PM
 
2,506 posts, read 7,749,007 times
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It takes alot of guts to call a respected author "abstract, idealist poop". It really didn't help your argument.
A victim is a victim, it doesn't matter that one died more horifically. She didn't downplay it at all, she put it in the context of tragedy. Sept. 11th was a tragedy for humanity, so was the IRA, so were the thousands that died in New Orleans, or the hundreds that died in London and Madrid. Yet, in light of this truism, we focus all energy into Sept. 11th. When did Pres. Bush say, besides the day after London, that we should attack terrorism in response to The Tube Bombings? She states, correctly, that we cannot be anymore deterred by Sept. 11th than Britiain was during the troubles, et. cetera. In that frame, she is more patriotic than most Americans: she doesn't want terroristic acts to scare us, or to make us act irrationally, or so on. We can remember without knee-jerk reactions. We can defend without ever-growing war, we can prevent through better means than taking shampoo off airlines (when chemical plants are open target, and when LNG is still shipped into Boston Harbor). Lessing was not commenting on Sept. 11, as much as our reaction to it. Not only does it not protect us, it made us more vulnerable. But we felt better, eh?
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Old 10-23-2007, 05:49 PM
 
294 posts, read 398,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnehahapolitan View Post
/\Finally, someone who read what she won.
Lessing was born in Persia, and grew up in Colonial Africa. She has been a noted writer for fifty years, and she recently won the Nobel Prize in Literature for her work. It has nothinhg to do with Al Gore, or Arafat, or even World Peace.

I didnt say it did, i was relating how the average person might think about the prestige of any of the Nobel awards with the examples of the listed poeple


Anyone who says otherwise is insolent and ignorant.

Pretty close minded view of someone who seems educated

Lessing, unlike some posters on this thread, has the ability to see things on an overall scale.

My post addresses that, but for someone who was in neither place she really has no idea of the context of either events and who is she to compare them and claim one worse then the other?

That is why she is a preeminent female author, and why you are ranting on an online forum about the sham of the Nobel Prize.

See nobel history of award winners

Her statements about Sept. 11th are spot-on, she did not degrade the importance of Sept. 11th. She put an international tragedy in context, because few Americans has the fortitude to do so

attack the fortitude of poeple becasue she made otherwise ignorant comments on something she wasnt present for

-- they knew some neocon would blast them,

Vast right wing conspiracy always is hunting for enlightened authors who make comments about things they know very little of. oh wait.... maybe anybody with a bit of common sense might realize that there is bias in her views and they are also ignorant views

or call them unpatriotic. Luckily for any intellectual, Lessing is 88 years old, and prob. doesn't care what you have to say about her.

not personally attacking her personally, but if the shoe fits....
secondly why do intellectuals always have this air of superiority to them? they usually are some overeducated ******* with average intelligence who have lived in a bubble with crazy ideas that no one agrees with...so they give themselves the title of "intellectual"


The volume and depth of Mrs. Lessing's work transcends the uneducated banter leveled at her.

good for her and her writing. i can educate a monkey, but i cant give it common sense...

---Minnehahapolitan

in my personal belief ANY person can be educated, doesnt make them smarter/intelligent, just more indocrinated into the required thinking pattern of whatever institution. no if ms lessing was on the ground during both events, i would listen to every word she said with alot more interest.

i would never trade intellectualism and education for experiance
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