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Old 02-26-2013, 03:44 AM
 
Location: USA
13,255 posts, read 12,102,008 times
Reputation: 4228

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
The issue is not the min wage itself, it's that people are trying to live middle class lifestyles off it and raise families off it today.

Totally different issues surround min wage.

Americans are too victimized to move out of that first job flipping burgers or bagging groceries.
Please.


You managed to say nothing.
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:45 AM
 
Location: USA
13,255 posts, read 12,102,008 times
Reputation: 4228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Do the idiots at the National Employment Law Project realize that...

1] CPI-U is nonsense; and
2] Demographics of the US have changed; and
3] Population distribution of the US has changed; and
4] Women were not part of the workforce, thus less competition for jobs, a lower E-Pop Ratio and a lower LFP Ratio

....makes their graph invalid?

Women were not fully integrated into the work-force until ~1996-97, and that took about 25 years starting about the mid-1970s.

Did the morons at the National Employment Law Project mention that America did not become a 2-car family until 1974? That's when more than 50% of households had at least 2 cars. I'm guessing they forgot to mention that....and all of the other associated and related changes in standard of living.

Sociologically...

Mircea
What does that have to do with the OP??

Sociologically?? What?
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:15 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,239,057 times
Reputation: 11416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
Not true ... we had calculators in the early 1960s. You dialed in the number and then cranked the handle the number of times you wanted to multiply.
OMG, I so forgot.

6 kids, one bathroom.
I've never eaten a PB&J.

Last edited by chielgirl; 02-26-2013 at 05:03 AM..
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:46 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,239,057 times
Reputation: 11416
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
I started paying into social security at 14, that was 14 years ago, I'll be working for another 30 years, give or take and I won't be getting any money out of social security either.
Might want to do some research on that.
Listening to talking points and biased news doesn't do you any favors.

I'm also sure that what you paid into SS at the age of 14 is not what a working person (after 40 years+) has contributed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
The boomers frugal? Bwaaahahahahahahahahahahaha! And who are the the folks who buy the 6000 sf McMansions and triple garages for their hummers?

Yes, the boomers give more, they hold > 80% of the wealth in this country. They made out like bandits.
Seriously.
You think everyone lives up to your stereotypes?
Some day, after working 40+ years, you might have money to play with.

Most of our generation, as with every generation, eked out a living as best we could.
We worked 2 jobs to be able to afford to live.

BTW, it's not my generation that I see buying the McMansions, but the one after mine.
We're on the downswing, many retiring.

Do you really expect to be taken seriously?

Last edited by chielgirl; 02-26-2013 at 05:04 AM..
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:34 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,239,057 times
Reputation: 11416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
I don't buy the Gen. X thing. There have never been enough of them to do much at all. Boomers rule the roost, and their buying power matters.

I agree that boomers should have more money than Millenials, but they also should do more for society. I see them using their demographic mass to bankrupt the country, launching wars with tax cuts, putting Grover Norquist zombies in office,etc.

And for full disclosure, I am a boomer myself, so I hold myself to the same standards.
Yeah, I did all of those things.
Not.

Because you're a dead beat, don't put that on others.
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:38 AM
 
651 posts, read 703,900 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
As a baby boomer, I also realize that my parents raised me in a 1500 square foot house. My brother and I shared a room till we were teens. We had one car. Mom stayed home and Dad worked 60 hours a week. We had one TV in the house, and three channels. We had two phones however - one in the kitchen and one in the master bedroom. We had no cell phones, no video games, no cable TV, no VCRs.

I had a pair of Sunday shoes, a pair of loafers, and a pair of tennis shoes. All three kids shared one bathroom with a single sink. Eating out was a special treat, not an every day occurrence. We went on one family vacation a year - all in one vehicle. That's right - three kids in the backseat together on a road trip.

When I was ten, I started working in yards with my brother for money. By twelve, I was babysitting for cash. When I turned fifteen, I started working at Burger King - that's right, for minimum wage, which was $2.15 at the time. I worked at Burger King for two summers in a row and saved my money over the summer so I'd have cash on hand during the school year. The summer of 1978 was the last time I ever earned minimum wage. The next summer, I started working in a job that offered a base pay (minimum wage) plus a commission on what I sold, and I never looked back.

We had 30 or more kids in each class. We were the largest generation ever born. We learned early on that if we didn't EXCEL -if we didn't work harder and shine brighter - we'd be lost in a crowd of mediocrity. So - we became competitive and grew to truly value a strong work ethic.

Speaking of school, kids didn't get a car when they turned 16 automatically. We rode the bus to school. When I started driving, Dad FINALLY got a second car and my mother and I shared a car - this was in 1978 and the car I shared with my mother was a 1969 Galaxy 500 Ford, with well over 300,000 miles on it.

And hey - we were solidly MIDDLE CLASS - not poor by any means. We lived in a nice neighborhood and my dad had an executive level job. But as you can see - VALUES for the concept of "middle class" were drastically different than they are today.

Us baby boomers moved out when we were 18 or 19 years old. Most of us worked our way through college as well. We were paid more than minimum wage by the time we were 19 or 20 years old because we'd already been working for four or five years by then, and actually had skills and a work ethic.

A smaller percentage of us obtained a bachelor's degree or higher - but we managed to climb the corporate ladder anyway. We knew we'd have to work long hard hours to do so - but we've always known that and been willing to do so.

Most of us bought our first home when we were around 30 - and that home was often very small. We didn't expect our first home to outshine the home our parents were still living in. We saved up our money and put a twenty percent (or more) down payment on that house. We didn't think it was fiscally responsible to buy a house with little or no money down.

We furnished our first home with garage sale finds, our parents' old furniture, and odds and ends. When we had two kids, we bought bunk beds, and we put two car seats in the back seat of the sedan - we didn't figure "OMG now we've got to buy a new vehicle and a new house so that each kid can have their own room and we can still have two living areas, a home office, and a workout room!"

And hey, I'm not complaining about a bit of it. My upbringing and my early working years laid a foundation of self confidence and a skill set that has served me well my entire life. I've worked hard but I know without a doubt that I've earned every comfort I enjoy now -and ever penny I've invested and saved.

Today the same parents would both be working, they'd have a 3000 square foot house, each kid would have their own room, with their own TV, their own cell phones, hell, their own vehicles. There'd be a media room, a three or four car garage, and every bedroom would have to have a walk in closet to hold all the clothing each child had. No one would eat dinner together, but each kid would have a preloaded debit card so they could eat out with their friends anytime they wanted to. They probably wouldn't really WORK because of all the extracurricular activities they're involved in - after all, their nanny can pick them up till they're 15 and can drive their own new Dodge Charger on a "hardship license." Never mind what their enabling parents have to pay for insurance, right? These same parents will, after all, be supporting them till they are about 26 years old - maybe even longer!

Baby boomers aren't without faults (no one is and every generation has it's good and bad points). All I'm saying is that we have DIFFERENT values than many in younger generations - just as our values differed from those of our parents.
It sounds like you stole my life story. Very similar to yours. And some how we made due and at least in my case I never felt under privileged.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:36 AM
 
11,412 posts, read 7,769,043 times
Reputation: 21922
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid View Post
When adjusted for inflation, they started out at wages better than minimum wage workers today?



and that they had a very high minimum wage AND a low unemployment rate?
You mean SOME of the Boomers, right? Late Boomers born 1960-1964 had a much different experience than those born earlier. Looking at 1982 on your chart, the year I graduated from college, I see minimum wages were at current 2012 levels and then continued to decline. Lucky me, after 30 years of stagnant or declining wages, I've finally arrived back where I started in 1982! And a 2012 college grad is right there with me enjoying 1982 level wages. What they won't have to enjoy is a national unemployment rate of 10.8%, inflation of 10.3% and a prime rate of 21.5% like I did in 1982. Yeah, I sure have had it easy.

Last edited by UNC4Me; 02-26-2013 at 06:46 AM..
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:42 AM
 
11,412 posts, read 7,769,043 times
Reputation: 21922
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
Well, you're right about one thing - the average age of a US House member is 58, and a Senator is 63. Boomers are carrying our political system, and to be honest, the results aren't that great.
Guess that Youth vote thing didn't happen. It was just Boomers voting for other Boomers. Yeah, that's what happened.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:48 AM
 
10,092 posts, read 8,190,445 times
Reputation: 3411
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Oh well, I guess you were raised in a more affluent manner. We were definitely middle class, and after I became a teenager, I had more shoes of course (which I bought!) and my own room (and come to think of it, my own Slimline phone!). I also had two brothers (one much younger than my other brother and me) and in a three bedroom house, someone's sharing a room! It just made more sense for the two kids who were close in age to share a room, I guess.

My husband and I both worked 30 or more hours a week while in college. Neither of us took out student loans. My parents paid for a PORTION of my college but I was responsible for the bulk of the expenses. My husband's parents didn't pay for any of his college.

Most people I know rented in their twenties and bought their first house in their very late twenties or early thirties.

Oh well - different upbringings, I guess.

Oh, just to show you - I found the house I grew up in in Newport News, Virginia on Zillow(one of the several - typical of all of them):
515 Kerry Lake Dr, Newport News, VA 23602 - Zillow

Bedrooms:3 beds
Bathrooms:2 baths
Single Family:1,329 sq ft
Lot:15,682 sq ft
Year Built:1962
Last Sold:Jul 1972 for $29,000

OMG I think that the last time it sold was when my parents sold it in 1972!!! Amazing! Here's what it looks like now, with a nice view of the solidly middle class neighborhood (it's held it's own pretty well).

515 Kerry Lake Drive, Newport News VA - Caroline Progress

I'd definitely call this middle class.

Here's the next house we lived in:

214 Rainier Drive, Fayetteville NC - Trulia

This was middle class in the 1970s - no doubt that BOTH these homes would be considered definitely below even "starter home" quality for most young couples with kids today - in spite of the fact that they are obviously well maintained and in very quiet, low crime, neat neighborhoods.
Again, I think you're romanticizing the era and making it sound like Little House on the Prairie. I was in college in the late 70s. I grew up on a ranch. It was a prosperous ranch, and my parents both have college degrees, but we were a long way from being rich. All the kids I knew had farm chores, and usually an outside part time job as well, but we also had nice clothes, access to a car or a car of our own, and we spent our time on Friday and Saturday nights driving around town with a car full of kids listening to music and pulling up in to the parking lot at the post office to talk. We had keggers in fields. Have you ever seen the movie Dazed and Confused? If you take out the hazing and everyone smoking pot (in rural areas it wasn't as common for everyone, although we had kids who were stoners), THAT was a lot closer to what being a teenager in the 70s was like than anything you've said.
Dazed and Confused - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your comment on sharing a room with your brother makes more sense if you were really little kids, so I may have misunderstood that, but in most families boys bunked with boys and girls bunked with girls, even if there was a significant age difference. I had assumed from your comment that your family only had a two bedroom house, but I was wrong.

I'm not sure exactly HOW you can work 30 hours a week and carry a full course load in college and still get the kind of grades it took to go to graduate school, especially back then when it actually meant something to have an advanced degree. You must have worked nights, because Saturday and evening classes were almost unheard of unless you lived in a very major city. College wasn't designed back then to accommodate adult learners. I worked part time during my undergraduate for my spending money, but I had academic scholarships that covered a good chunk of it and then borrowed the rest. So did my husband, whose background is fairly identical to mine. During grad school I worked full time, but I was only able to attend grad school because my employer let me leave work to take classes and make the time up at night. I put my hubby through law school at the same time.

It irritates me when people try to claim that their generation is so vastly superior to kids today. Kids are kids, and they're not all that different from generation to generation. My kids and their friends have more toys than we did, but they also have a great work ethic. They also have a better understanding of the world than we EVER did at that age. I HAVE hired teenagers and I haven't met many who think the world owes them anything. I think it's just easier to complain about problems that don't exist.

Last edited by mb1547; 02-26-2013 at 07:21 AM..
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:59 AM
 
Location: USA
13,255 posts, read 12,102,008 times
Reputation: 4228
My father and I talk about the issue pretty regularly. Their generation had it much, much easier when it came down to financial independence.

Our generation may have more "stuff", but we have less things that really matter in life.
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