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As a Republican (fiscally conservative), I say just let Obama do what he wants. Retreat, live another day. Obama's political spin machine has too much of the public on his side.
What they need to do is think how they can win back the White House in 2017.
I say, give Obama the tax revenue increases he so desperately wants but tie it to a poison proposition. What's the poison pill? Tie the poison pill with across the board tax increases (say 2% across the board income taxes) (for everyone starting in 2016) if the healthcare legislation (ACA) is billions over budget (which it will be).
It's a very simple strategy. Republicans current strategy isn't working.
Let Obama have his way now. Reload. Fast forward to the end of 2015 when it's become fairly obvious the Health Care law is going to be way over budget, force the Democrats hands. The public is very easy to understand. Any tax increases which directly affects them, will be frowned upon. This method will force the Democrats hands. They will be forced to either start cutting programs or have automatic tax increases for everyone to support their largest program.
Here's an idea.
1. You can have your tax increase, as soon as you require the senate to pass a budget, and that budget must be a balanced budget.
Status:
"everybody getting reported now.."
(set 17 days ago)
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,552 posts, read 16,528,077 times
Reputation: 6031
Quote:
Originally Posted by aneftp
The well being of the country starts will everyone contributing. It's much easier when everyone "pays a little bit more" (using Obama's own words).
Obama gets his tax increases (loopholes closed). The public will understand that. And the public will also understand even with tax increases, we still have a spending problem.
obama has never said that we didnt have a spending problem as well, but the problem is that even if we cut spending to the bone, we would still be in debt because we also have a revenue problem.
Also, you said yourself that republicans should tie increases to a poison pill, your words not ours. Why harm the nation so you can win in 2016 ?
I felt the same way after the election, let the people feel the effects of what they have chosen. But the amazing thing is that Obama and the dems manage to blame the Republicans for all of their screw ups.
Obamacare a big disaster- it was a "Republican" plan, even though Republicans completely voted against it.
Sequester that was created by the White House, pushed by Obama under threat of veto, and passed in the Dem. controlled Senate became a completely "Republican" sequester, except for the fact that Woodward called them out on that. Which led to the press and the WH attacking Woodward because you can't have that narrative challenged.
Obama is really putting the term "bully" into his bully pulpit, and the press won't call him on any of his lies. So their is really nothing Republicans can do.
When the press consists of Mr. Tingles and people like this lady, who literally gush in awe of him rather than ask real questions, what do you expect?
Let's suppose you had a really, really bad accident, and from the crash, your face was scarred. Do you really, really believe that scar will ever heal from the damage of the accident? Everyday, you would look in the mirror, and the scar would still be visible.
If you believe that tax breaks and 2 wars do not have lasting consequences, you're sorrily mistaken.
What Bush did will last for at least 10 years after. http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3849
obama has never said that we didnt have a spending problem as well, but the problem is that even if we cut spending to the bone, we would still be in debt because we also have a revenue problem.
Also, you said yourself that republicans should tie increases to a poison pill, your words not ours. Why harm the nation so you can win in 2016 ?
No, I am saying the Republican message to the public has gotten muted by Obama's message. Obama's message is "to make the wealthy pay just a little bit more".
The Republican's message so far has been to cut spending. The Republican's have failed to addressed the revenue side (to the public).
What my post was say, bounce the ball back to the Democrats side in 2016. Give in to Obama's "revenue demands". Force the Democrats hands by forcing an automatic tax increase on everyone (not just the wealthy in 2016) if we continue with further budget problems.
I guarantee you 100% the Affordable Care Law will run 3-4 trillion over budget. You don't have to be a rocket scientist and see how many billions and trillions the government will end up by subsidizing many people's healthcare. That's where you back the Democrats and corner them. Either they start cutting spending or tax increases for everyone will take place. That's why I said a poison pill. Dems say we have a revenue problem like you stated and like Obama states. They offered to start cutting once they get their revenue. Let them have their tax revenue, retreat, sit back. Fast forward to 2016 when the public will get hit with potential tax increases, the Dems will be force to pick their poison. Give into tax increases for everyone to support their policy or start cutting back.
The Republican's message will be loud and clear. Simple. They gave into Obama's demands. The budget will still be even more of a disaster in 2016 with the ACA law running wildly overbudget.
What's going to be Obama and the Dems next move when 2016 rolls around? It's a very simple policy. Cut Obama off at every corner. He's got no defense for this manuever. Either he raises taxes by than on his general voting bloc or cuts spending. Because Republicans can always point to 2013 that they gave into his tax increases for the wealthy and closing of loopholes for the wealthy.
And I don't know why you guys are saying this will harm the nation. So if taxes hit the 98% of the nation, it's harming the nation? Even when the top 2% are paying much more with closing of loopholes and tax increases for 2013 already?
You can't have it both ways. Everyone needs to contribute in this country. Remember I said to raise taxes on everyone again in 2016 with the poison pill. That means the wealthy will be paying another 2% on top of their 4.6% tax increase on top of their medicare tax increase above 250K with the ACA law on top of closing of whatever loopholes Obama wanted to close in 2013.
Obama's not going to cut the deficit. Obama wants to raise taxes. In the long term that's not going to have any effect on the deficit, because entitlements will grow to suck up any potential sources of revenue. Until the entitlement are brought to heal, the deficit will continue to spiral out of control.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks
Reducing the deficit would cause more harm?
Blocking immigration reform would hurt the GOP, not Obama.
Obama's not going to cut the deficit. Obama wants to raise taxes. In the long term that's not going to have any effect on the deficit, because entitlements will grow to suck up any potential sources of revenue. Until the entitlement are brought to heal, the deficit will continue to spiral out of control.
He's said he would reform entitlements like the Bowles-Simpson plan, which reduces the deficit. Reforming the tax code to raise more tax revenue also reduces the deficit.
Wasn't the sequester Obama's idea and isn't he criticizing R's for it? Didn't he criticize Bush for the debt? Didn't he made a big deal out of not raising the debt limit? I think them D's will just blame R's or global warming.
all those things are true.
however, truth is not reality. PERCEPTION IS REALITY.
until the leaders of the Republican party figure that out, America is doomed.
Obama's not going to cut the deficit. Obama wants to raise taxes. In the long term that's not going to have any effect on the deficit, because entitlements will grow to suck up any potential sources of revenue. Until the entitlement are brought to heal, the deficit will continue to spiral out of control.
25% of revenue is spent on defense, 12% is spent on welfare.
BTW, Obama said in his campaign he wanted to raise taxes. What part of that subliminal message didn't some folks get or understand?
25% of revenue is spent on defense, 12% is spent on welfare.
BTW, Obama said in his campaign he wanted to raise taxes. What part of that subliminal message didn't some folks get or understand?
Very true. Obama always stated he wanted to raise revenues first. But he always stated he would address the spending issue.
Like I stated. Give into Obama. Setup the Dems for defending themselves in 2016 elections with across the board automatic tax increases if the budget is a disaster.
Republicans will have a much easier time getting their message across (spending out of control despite increase revenue) in 2016 than they have in this current political climate where Obama has convinced the public we need to raise revenues.
I know. Republicans gotta understand 3 million votes decided the election. Especially in the swing states. Landline by electoral college votes for Obama but you swing those 3 million votes to even 50%, you've got a good chance to win back the white house.
Show the public you are willing to eliminate loopholes to raise revenue. Show the public you are willing to compromise. Than around end of 2015, when budget plans are being set, the public will still see spending that is out of control even with tax increases/revenue.
This puts the Democrats on the defense to have to explain why their programs are costing so much money. And either we increase taxes again on everyone this time but else...start looking at programs to cut waste. That's what the Republicans can present to the public. Say, look we did it the increase revenue way for 3 years, now let's do it the other way.
1) in 2000 Al Gore won the popular vote (Bush was in minority) yet he became president and dragged America into wars. I think much of the polarization that splits this country today started then. Therefore 3 million votes is much more then W had.
2) "Out of control spending" will exist even when a republican becomes president. If Romney won, he would be accused of spending billions on the military (out of control).
3) However there is still time to reach a reasonable agreement on 2015. Eliminating loopholes is a long process and is not for the current sequester.
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