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Old 03-10-2013, 04:50 AM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,227,966 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale View Post
We want as many people as possible to feel included in American society and culture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
As do I.
Your posts make a mockery and a lie of that claim.
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:23 AM
 
Location: Palm Springs, CA
26,529 posts, read 25,030,074 times
Reputation: 7739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
As do I.
HA. Yeah, right.
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:31 AM
 
Location: texas
9,137 posts, read 6,756,201 times
Reputation: 2374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
That is because you have been brainwashed by the left to think that marriage has no significant meaning.

While we are on the subject - how come you hate me?

You won't let me marry my cat - that is extremely hateful, IMO.
You can marry your cat if you wish. Just make sure you make arrangements to transfer all your wealth to him at the time of your death, or he wont have a paw to stand on in court.
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:53 AM
 
340 posts, read 368,899 times
Reputation: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
It has nothig to do with personally being against gays.Its about the belief in marriage as betweeen a man and woman.Even a preacher can be found to be immoral and committing adultry.Being a Christian I leave it to god to judge all sinners for their sins.
Marriage is a union or contract between two people. Two people can marry up two businesses. You just don't want gays to marry. Its none of your business what they do and it does nothing to diminish your marriage. So why don't you keep your nose out of what others do?
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:13 AM
 
Location: South Minneapolis
4,763 posts, read 5,439,649 times
Reputation: 7014
I do not look down on gay people or their relationships. Where I live, gays are a significant minority and about 20% of the couples on our block are committed couples. They make fine neighbors and good parents. I do not object to their having legal protections for their relationships and their families, but the issue of whether or not they can truly be married once it is permitted in Minnesota (and yes, I see that as almost inevitable) is not yours or mine to decide. They may be married in the eyes of the law, and in the views of many of the citizens, but they will never truly be married because not matter what we call the formalization of their relationship, marriage can only be between one man and one woman. They will consider themselves to be married as will many of you, and that's fine as far as it goes. But just because you call something by a name, that doesn't mean you change the intrinsic nature of that thing.

I know this is a very hard concept for many of you, likely because you do not want to accept it. But if I call my cat a dog, does she become a dog? What if everyone decides that cats are now dogs? We could all agree on that, but would my cat BE a dog? Some of you may say, yes, cat and dog are man made terms, and the differences between the species are man made constructs which we devised for our own convenience, but I think she would remain different from a dog no matter what we called her.So it is with "gay" marriage. It is similar but essentially different from marriage in a fundamental way: the sex and number of participants.

This really has nothing to do with "phobia" or fear or religion. It is a question of whether or not we can make things that are unlike like by grouping them together under one naming convention. In my opinion, we cannot, and so no matter what the laws or society decide, there simply cannot be marriage between two people of the same sex.
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
3,039 posts, read 2,168,637 times
Reputation: 826
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale View Post
Just because someone has a different opinion from you doesn't mean he or she is brainwashed. That's utterly absurd.

Some of us are just more open-minded and empathetic than others. We want as many people as possible to feel included in American society and culture.
lols. So if someone has a different opinion than you they aren't open-minded and empathetic. lols.

Thanks for the laugh.

And gay people aren't part of society or culture? Who knew.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:19 AM
 
17,751 posts, read 15,654,137 times
Reputation: 6391
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
Read this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/fa...=weddings&_r=0







My point to you conservatives is this: not all gays fit the stereotype you have of some immoral promiscuous gigolos who hang out in bath houses.

Here are two men who are highly educated and accomplished in their fields. And they demonstrate no less long-term commitment and love for each other than heterosexual couples...probably more, if you consider the 50% divorce rate.

So why would I or anyone else look down on their relationship? By all accounts, they are more admirable as individuals and as a couple than many conservative heterosexuals who disparage them.
Its about collecting your sex buddy's benefits so buzz off already.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:48 AM
 
14,920 posts, read 11,171,064 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenfield View Post
I do not look down on gay people or their relationships. Where I live, gays are a significant minority and about 20% of the couples on our block are committed couples. They make fine neighbors and good parents. I do not object to their having legal protections for their relationships and their families, but the issue of whether or not they can truly be married once it is permitted in Minnesota (and yes, I see that as almost inevitable) is not yours or mine to decide. They may be married in the eyes of the law, and in the views of many of the citizens, but they will never truly be married because not matter what we call the formalization of their relationship, marriage can only be between one man and one woman. They will consider themselves to be married as will many of you, and that's fine as far as it goes. But just because you call something by a name, that doesn't mean you change the intrinsic nature of that thing.

I know this is a very hard concept for many of you, likely because you do not want to accept it. But if I call my cat a dog, does she become a dog? What if everyone decides that cats are now dogs? We could all agree on that, but would my cat BE a dog? Some of you may say, yes, cat and dog are man made terms, and the differences between the species are man made constructs which we devised for our own convenience, but I think she would remain different from a dog no matter what we called her.So it is with "gay" marriage. It is similar but essentially different from marriage in a fundamental way: the sex and number of participants.

This really has nothing to do with "phobia" or fear or religion. It is a question of whether or not we can make things that are unlike like by grouping them together under one naming convention. In my opinion, we cannot, and so no matter what the laws or society decide, there simply cannot be marriage between two people of the same sex.
What?

If marriage law allows for couples of the same sex to contract a marriage, then when they file for a civil marriage, they are legally married. Period.

Again, this debate is about civil marriages (a secular, legal construct), not religious or otherwise "traditional" marriages. You seem to be conflating the two.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 21,069,710 times
Reputation: 8620
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
It has nothig to do with personally being against gays.Its about the belief in marriage as betweeen a man and woman.Even a preacher can be found to be immoral and committing adultry.Being a Christian I leave it to god to judge all sinners for their sins.
But being a Christian, if you have read your bible, you'd know that marriage isn't between a man, and a woman. Many biblical figures had more then one wife, and its speculated that many had male lovers, like david and Solomon.

While they may have been immoral in your eyes, they were seen to be holy men of god.

But marriage hasn't been about religion in this country, in a long time, anyone alive reading this thread in fact has lived under that division. You can go to the justice of the peace, and get married with no religious overtones whatsoever
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:17 AM
 
Location: South Minneapolis
4,763 posts, read 5,439,649 times
Reputation: 7014
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
What?

If marriage law allows for couples of the same sex to contract a marriage, then when they file for a civil marriage, they are legally married. Period.
I do not disagree that they are married in the eyes of the law and actually said that in my post. But there is more to it than a legal definition, a point on which I acknowledge we disagree.

Quote:
Again, this debate is about civil marriages (a secular, legal construct), not religious or otherwise "traditional" marriages. You seem to be conflating the two.


The debate is about marriage, not one narrow definition of how you determine what is and is not marriage. You seem to be making the point that marriage is defined by law. So let me pose a couple of questions to get you to think about the ramifications of that.

First, what does that mean in states or other places where homosexual marriage is not legal? Can two gay people be married there?

Second, imagine this hypothetical for a moment. Suppose a law were passed that said that adoptive parents who were homosexual could not keep their children, and were not eligible to be parents. (This is merely a hypothetical and NOT something I would advocate.) Let us further suppose that two gay parents and their children escaped somewhere where they lived in isolation, but still within the jurisdiction of this law, and there they continued to raise their children.

Would they still be the children's parents, or would they not because the law said they weren't? Are they defined by who and what they are, or are they defined by what the law says they are?

Last edited by Glenfield; 03-10-2013 at 11:45 AM..
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