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Old 03-12-2013, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,626,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Please list citations for both that they were anything other than "honorary" bestowals of "citizenship," much like "honoraray" college degrees that also have no actual academic credentials associated with them. As such, honorary degrees render the recipients ineligible for professional board certification.
Not to speak for Lincoln, but Jefferson's was not honorary.

A general abridgment and digest of American law: with occasional notes and ... - Nathan Dane - Google Books

Quote:
According to the usages and understanding of all nations a man may have all the rights of a naturalized citizen or subject in his adopted country, and yet retain all his relations, civil and political, in his native country. For instances, the Marqui La Fayette was naturalized in the United States, but retained every such relation to France. So Mr. Jefferson was naturalized in France and there made a French citizen, and he had gone there would have been entitled to all the rights there of an adopted citizen, but he certainly retained all his relations to the United States, his rights and duties as a native citizen, and was in fact after such naturalization, elected President of the United States.
The author of this account was Nathan Dane, a contemporary and personal friend of Jefferson, one of our greatest revolutionary era lawyers, and the man personally responsible for starting the "amendment" of the Articles of Confederation that became The US Constitution. This passage is from his magnum opus A General Abridgement and Digest of American Law which earned for him the title of, "Father of American Jurisprudence."

He is an unimpeachable, authoritative and conclusive source.

Jefferson's French citizenship was not honorary.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,626,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
What is their specific WKA citation? Let's see it.
Here's the string cite that will direct you to all the relevant later citations. Knock yourself out.

The one's you're interested in are found in section 1. Birther Cases with Decisions Recognizing that Obama is a “Natural Born Citizen”

http://tesibria.typepad.com/whats_yo...ING%20CITE.pdf
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,626,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Army Soldier View Post
But it should be.
But it's not.

You don't get a pony either.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,626,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Army Soldier View Post
Nor does William Rawle, the nutcase wacko Dr. Conspiracy and the man who wrote the nutty drivel 'The Annotated Zullo'.
I'll take that as your full concession that Bingham's opinion is meaningless.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:37 PM
 
66,328 posts, read 30,210,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrecking ball View Post
" so mr jefferson was naturalized in france and there made a french citizen, and had he gone there would have been entitled to all the rights there of an adopted citizen,....."

A general abridgment and digest of American law: with occasional notes and ... - Nathan Dane - Google Books
When did that happen? According to this, Jefferson was not a citizen of France. Footnote 10:
DAVIS PROB SLAVERY REV 1770-1823 C - David Brion Davis - Google Books
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Barrington
45,680 posts, read 33,930,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Army Soldier View Post
Yes, that is why they were grandfathered in as presidents. The first few presidents weren't natural born Citizens. That was the only time a born-Citizen could be president until a U.S. natural born Citizen became eligible later on.
Subsequent presidents with one or more parents born elsewhere:
#15- Buchanan -Ireland
#21 Arthur- Ireland
#28 Wilson- England
#31 Hoover- Canada
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,626,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
When did that happen?
While he was our Minister to France in about 1787.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
According to this, Jefferson was not a citizen of France. Footnote 10:
DAVIS PROB SLAVERY REV 1770-1823 C - David Brion Davis - Google Books
1) David Brion Davis was not even born until 1927. Nathan Dane was a little bit closer to the action.

2) It says Jefferson declined to join the Société des amis des Noirs, not that he ever declined French Citizenship.

3) It also doesn't say anywhere that says only that "Jefferson was not a citizen of France." It only says that he was not offered citizenship in 1792. Perhaps Davis was unaware, but by that time, Jefferson was already a French citizen and had been one for several years, so why would he be?

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Old 03-12-2013, 12:50 PM
 
66,328 posts, read 30,210,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Subsequent presidents with one or more parents born elsewhere:
#15- Buchanan -Ireland
#21 Arthur- Ireland
#28 Wilson- England
#31 Hoover- Canada
Meaningless unless the parents weren't U.S.citizens at the time of said presidents' births. Arthur's father's non-citizen status wasn't known until recently. Even the Library of Congress admits Arthur burned nearly all of his personal papers instead of donating them for posterity, as is usual.Search the forum, this has already been discussed.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:52 PM
 
66,328 posts, read 30,210,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
While he was our Minister to France in about 1787.
Where's the proof?
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:56 PM
 
66,328 posts, read 30,210,361 times
Reputation: 8622
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Here's the string cite that will direct you to all the relevant later citations. Knock yourself out.
None of those cite where in WKA it is deemed that anyone born to a non-U.S. citizen parent is a natural born citizen. What else have you got?
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