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Old 03-12-2013, 02:02 AM
 
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IMO only crimes that clearly have victims should be criminal. Crimes such as murder, assault, rape, robbery, arson, and so on. Sentencing should be done either in a prison or a mental institution for the criminally insane depending on the offender's psychological profile.

The possibility of parole/release should never be totally denied for any offender, though parole trials should be by a randomly selected jury who is made fully aware of what the criminal did to get in jail. This will ensure that serial murderers, the worst rapists, perpetrators of mass murders, and so on will never walk free again. I'd also suggest that the victim's family should also have to vote to forgive the offender as a condition of their release. No forgiveness, no release.

This way everybody will technically have a second chance, yet the worst and most dangerous people will surely remain locked away as the general public tends to be highly unforgiving.

As controversial as this is to say, I think hard drugs, consensual incestuous sex between adults, and public nudity should not be criminal offenses. Being offensive isn't good reason enough for something to be a criminal offense. That's simply legislating morality.

While I do think hard drugs, incest and public nudity are wrong, I think the social stigmas already exist to the point where most people will not engage in them. To criminalize them simply dehumanizes and strips away the rights of people who choose to do such things.

As gross as incest is, to say they don't have a right to breed doesn't make any more sense than saying two autistic people can't breed. As for the social effect it would have on the child, certainly it would be negative, but so would having two gay parents or being born to a teen mom. I think people having incestuous kids is bad and revolting, but I still don't see any good reason why incest should be a crime that puts you in jail, so long as it's consensual. I think the social stigma is punishment and deterrent enough.

Public nudity is legal here in Portland but I never see people walk around naked. Taking heroin is illegal here yet there are junkies on every other corner. I don't think everyone will suddenly become a tweaker or junkie if hard drugs are legalized.

I also think that decriminalizing hard drugs and perhaps nationalizing them (imagine the Department of Heavy Substance Distribution) would crush the gangs.

Yes, I know it sounds crazy, but I think we should make the creation and selling of hard drugs a non-profit government service, just like the post office. The drugs would cost money but no more than what it cost to create them and operate the infrastructure for selling them. This way the cartels would never be able to compete. And, junkies would not feel the need to steal and possibly even murder to continue their habit since their drugs would be affordable.

Those who are clearly abusing drugs should be court-ordered to rehab, but it should not go on their criminal record. Druggies should only be punished if they actually commit a crime to support or under the influence of their habit.

As far as assisted suicide goes, I draw the line there. For one thing it's a perfect cover up for serial killers in the medical field. Another thing, people who are suicidal are mentally ill. I do think euthanasia for those who are in great physical pain and have little to no hope of improvement should be legal though.
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:03 AM
pvs
 
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+1
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:13 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
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I mostly agree. Devils in the details.

If a family is cooking meth in their house with a two year old present, are they not hurting, and therefore assaulting the child? By that same thought process, if you're smoking a joint in front of a child, that's second hand smoke, and that's been proven to cause some physical degradation, all be it slight. Where is the line drawn?

I think most hard drugs should be legalized. However, self production of some, which can be hazardous should be illegal, because of the hazards of producing it.

I also think drunk driving should be legal. Its already against the law if you hurt someone, or damage property. But why should it be illegal to simply drive your car, for something you might do? Millions of people drive with a slight buzz every week, and never hurt a soul. Of course you don't hear that on the news.

Food for thought, carry on.
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:37 AM
 
Location: Warren County and loving it!
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I used to agree on the hard drugs thing but after hearing a five year old share his horror of watching his mother overdose was enough to change my mind on that one.

I do however believe that mj should be legal as there is no threat of overdose.

Another to add to the list of crimes is burglary. It is not ok to be a thief. Someone else worked for those goods and bought them.

I would be ok with the parole thing if jail was punitive in nature. Make it a place people don't want to be and then just maybe parole programs will work.
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:42 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,975,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseyt719 View Post
I used to agree on the hard drugs thing but after hearing a five year old share his horror of watching his mother overdose was enough to change my mind on that one.

I do however believe that mj should be legal as there is no threat of overdose.

Another to add to the list of crimes is burglary. It is not ok to be a thief. Someone else worked for those goods and bought them.

I would be ok with the parole thing if jail was punitive in nature. Make it a place people don't want to be and then just maybe parole programs will work.


I watched my uncle slowly kill himself with alcohol. Mothers have blown their heads off in front of their kids.

Should we make beer and guns illegal, because of what one mother did to her 5 year old? Or should we understand that, in a free country, bad things happen? Bad things happen and we should help that child however we can to live a normal life, but still, bad things will happen.

Have you also researched that, making illegal drugs legal has lowered use, and it makes drug deaths less prevalent due to cleaner drugs?

I'm not going out and using heroine, but it doesn't mean I have the right to tell others they can't.
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:51 AM
 
Location: Warren County and loving it!
5,313 posts, read 7,541,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
I watched my uncle slowly kill himself with alcohol. Mothers have blown their heads off in front of their kids.

Should we make beer and guns illegal, because of what one mother did to her 5 year old? Or should we understand that, in a free country, bad things happen? Bad things happen and we should help that child however we can to live a normal life, but still, bad things will happen.

Have you also researched that, making illegal drugs legal has lowered use, and it makes drug deaths less prevalent due to cleaner drugs?

I'm not going out and using heroine, but it doesn't mean I have the right to tell others they can't.
I understand what you're saying. I really do. I'm just saying that changed my mind about hard drugs. If the majority wanted it legal, I wouldn't fight them on it either.

You're right. If it were legal I wouldn't go out and do it. Mj, probably but not anything else.

That kid broke my heart and the hurt he feels is so intense.
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Old 03-12-2013, 05:45 AM
 
2,096 posts, read 3,825,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseyt719 View Post
I used to agree on the hard drugs thing but after hearing a five year old share his horror of watching his mother overdose was enough to change my mind on that one.

I do however believe that mj should be legal as there is no threat of overdose.

Another to add to the list of crimes is burglary. It is not ok to be a thief. Someone else worked for those goods and bought them.

I would be ok with the parole thing if jail was punitive in nature. Make it a place people don't want to be and then just maybe parole programs will work.
Do you think punishing the mother would have made the situation better though? I mean don't get me wrong, I don't like hard drugs, but I think users of them need help, not scorn.

Burglary I include that in robbery. Any kind of crime that has an obvious victim should be a crime.

As for jail, I don't think it's fun at all. Sure some people might get used to the security of being there, or might even feel at home in the "culture", but for most people jail isn't a place you'd wanna go.
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Old 03-12-2013, 05:48 AM
 
2,096 posts, read 3,825,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
I mostly agree. Devils in the details.

If a family is cooking meth in their house with a two year old present, are they not hurting, and therefore assaulting the child? By that same thought process, if you're smoking a joint in front of a child, that's second hand smoke, and that's been proven to cause some physical degradation, all be it slight. Where is the line drawn?

I think most hard drugs should be legalized. However, self production of some, which can be hazardous should be illegal, because of the hazards of producing it.

I also think drunk driving should be legal. Its already against the law if you hurt someone, or damage property. But why should it be illegal to simply drive your car, for something you might do? Millions of people drive with a slight buzz every week, and never hurt a soul. Of course you don't hear that on the news.

Food for thought, carry on.
Production is a bit of a trickier thing. I think as long as you aren't selling it to people, as long as it's for personal use, it shouldn't be a crime. And as long as it's safe to make.

Drunk driving hmmm. Normally I think punishment is a poor deterrent for crime, but most drunk drivers do not suffer personality disorders the way that violent criminals do, so maybe the risk of a fine and a DUI would deter them from drinking drunk. I'm not really sure about that one.
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Old 03-12-2013, 05:51 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,975,325 times
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Originally Posted by belmont22 View Post
Production is a bit of a trickier thing. I think as long as you aren't selling it to people, as long as it's for personal use, it shouldn't be a crime. And as long as it's safe to make.

Drunk driving hmmm. Normally I think punishment is a poor deterrent for crime, but most drunk drivers do not suffer personality disorders the way that violent criminals do, so maybe the risk of a fine and a DUI would deter them from drinking drunk. I'm not really sure about that one.
But why give them the risk of a fine, the risk of jail, the risk of losing your job because you were caught .01% over a limit, and your tail light was out, and a cop asked you to blow in a little nozzle. Sure, you can say no, but in many states thats as good as guilty now.

All the while, you haven't hurt anyone, you haven't hit a kid, a car, a mail box, a dog, a fly, nothing. Just punish you for something you might do.

The point on production of some drugs, like meth, is that production isn't safe. But should we make that illegal? What does it mean "as long as its safe to make". Lots of legal arguments can be made that many things aren't safe to make. Why shouldn't someone be able to sale whats legal to make and consume?

Like I said, Devils in the details.
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Old 03-12-2013, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Warren County and loving it!
5,313 posts, read 7,541,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belmont22 View Post
Do you think punishing the mother would have made the situation better though? I mean don't get me wrong, I don't like hard drugs, but I think users of them need help, not scorn.

Burglary I include that in robbery. Any kind of crime that has an obvious victim should be a crime.

As for jail, I don't think it's fun at all. Sure some people might get used to the security of being there, or might even feel at home in the "culture", but for most people jail isn't a place you'd wanna go.
Ah but you are a rational individual with a good life (I'm assuming here).

I worked in the prisons for many years. It's not punitive. Many live far better in than out. It's unfortunate but true.
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