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Old 03-13-2013, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Salinas, CA
14,983 posts, read 4,772,155 times
Reputation: 8045

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
I have oodles of decency - I blame the adults who encouraged this child to be docile.

It is a tragedy that he is dead - and it happened because of liberal "zero tolerance" policies.
As a final comment, I am glad you defended yourself in your situation. We do have to realize this was a 2 vs.1 situation and I would not judge the policies because this would have happened anyways. The two kids were h*** bent on beating the victim senseless. They were not analyzing the policy..."let's see if we beat this kid up, what will happen..."

What really needs to happen at most schools is a stern gathering in the auditorium/gymnasium on the first day of school where the principal spells out in certain terms that bullying results in severe consequences. A two day suspension does not meet the laugh test.

Maybe I misinterpreted your tone in the last post. If someone dies, it is serious. That is my view. Too many people are posting "This just happens and move on."

I would like to ask those people if it happened to their child, would they be singing that tune? They are hypocrites and probably not very good parents, too.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
2,223 posts, read 1,588,252 times
Reputation: 884
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessgeek View Post
As a final comment, I am glad you defended yourself in your situation. We do have to realize this was a 2 vs.1 situation and I would not judge the policies because this would have happened anyways. The two kids were h*** bent on beating the victim senseless. They were not analyzing the policy..."let's see if we beat this kid up, what will happen..."

What really needs to happen at most schools is a stern gathering in the auditorium/gymnasium on the first day of school where the principal spells out in certain terms that bullying results in severe consequences. A two day suspension does not meet the laugh test.

Maybe I misinterpreted your tone in the last post. If someone dies, it is serious. That is my view. Too many people are posting "This just happens and move on."

I would like to ask those people if it happened to their child, would they be singing that tune? They are hypocrites and probably not very good parents, too.
What needs to happen is we need to quit using euphemisms like 'bullying' and call things what they are.
This boy was assaulted - plain and simple.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Salinas, CA
14,983 posts, read 4,772,155 times
Reputation: 8045
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwm1964 View Post
Some people are so dense.
His point (Harrier) is not that difficult to understand. Nor is it insulting to the young man who was murdered (ok manslaughter, it was not intentional but it doesn't change the fact these young thugs killed the young man and the young man was not taught or encouraged to learn to defend himself)

Life is not fair, people are sometimes put in the position of needing to defend themselves.
In our society it has become 'criminal' to act in self-defense. My children have been told to 'run away' if someone threatens them - wow, what a life lesson, when those who would oppress, threaten you, "run away".
I'll admit I misunderstood one of Harrier's post and do sincerely regret the "indecent" comment. However, I am not detecting (and many others agree) as much concern as many of us would expect in a decent society. In addition to running or walking away, the authorities at the school should be telling your child to report it to the principal's office so they can take action and hopefully expel the perpetrators. They do not have the right to be in school if they do that to other students. The problem here is a two day suspension is a joke.

Would you seriously want your child to defend themselves against two or more students rather than avoid them? It could be risky.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:59 PM
 
29,419 posts, read 18,676,432 times
Reputation: 5437
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessgeek View Post
As a final comment, I am glad you defended yourself in your situation. We do have to realize this was a 2 vs.1 situation and I would not judge the policies because this would have happened anyways. The two kids were h*** bent on beating the victim senseless. They were not analyzing the policy..."let's see if we beat this kid up, what will happen..."

What really needs to happen at most schools is a stern gathering in the auditorium/gymnasium on the first day of school where the principal spells out in certain terms that bullying results in severe consequences. A two day suspension does not meet the laugh test.

Maybe I misinterpreted your tone in the last post. If someone dies, it is serious. That is my view. Too many people are posting "This just happens and move on."

I would like to ask those people if it happened to their child, would they be singing that tune? They are hypocrites and probably not very good parents, too.
My kids have weekly anti bullying "sessions" and DARE sessions. Big waste of time. You must remember that children lie too. Simply going to a teacher and saying Joe is being mean to me what do you do? Kick em out for a week? Expel em for bullying? Some bullying is just kids joking around and somebody takes it serious when it's not too. The entire thing is madness hoisted upon these children who should be allowed to grow up a bit on their own before the schools intervene. Now its to the point if you fight back you get in as much trouble as the "bully". So what is it teaching? Nothing. They hang signs all over the school anti bully zone bla bla bla. It's all nonsense.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Salinas, CA
14,983 posts, read 4,772,155 times
Reputation: 8045
Would a good rule of thumb be to try to avoid the bully the first time (walk away)? If they try a second time, then report it. If the school does nothing and they try a third time, then defend yourself (and be sure to document the first two incidents). I think 80% of us could agree on that. Sort of the three strikes and you are out for bullying. The school must do something or the rules are meaningless. Two day suspensions for such severe behavior are a joke.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:35 PM
 
Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
2,223 posts, read 1,588,252 times
Reputation: 884
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessgeek View Post
I'll admit I misunderstood one of Harrier's post and do sincerely regret the "indecent" comment. However, I am not detecting (and many others agree) as much concern as many of us would expect in a decent society. In addition to running or walking away, the authorities at the school should be telling your child to report it to the principal's office so they can take action and hopefully expel the perpetrators. They do not have the right to be in school if they do that to other students. The problem here is a two day suspension is a joke.

Would you seriously want your child to defend themselves against two or more students rather than avoid them? It could be risky.
I want my children to carry themselves with the confidence that lets others know they are not victims or targets. I work to make sure myself and my children have 'trust' between us so we 'have each others backs'. My children know when they are faced with a threat, they do not stand alone, they stand with their siblings, their father, and their community.

My daughter was accused of 'doing and selling drugs' by some BS anonymous bass ackwards program called "Safe to Tell". The idea is to let others anonymously make accusations against their peers which are taken seriously and since it is anonymous there are no repercussions for the lying little bastards who hide behind this anonymity. This is why we have the right to face our accusers.

Long and Short of story - daughter tells dad, dad networks with other parents and finds out who the little lying jerks are and also uncovers their parents are active participants in their little slander campaign. Dad with daughters cooperation gets drug test for daughter, calls meeting with vice principal, other parent who experienced similar situation by same participants and police officer.

End Result - while no one is formally accused of making false accusations, parent of suspected accuser is asked by officer for them and their children to have no contact with my daughter.

Sounds simple in retrospect. Takes courage however to stand up for what is right while it is happening and face those who would tear down others with lies and deceit (or violence). I was advised by friends to put my daughters in another school to avoid the situation (ie. teach my children to 'run away').

It is incredibly sad what happened to this boy. He was murdered by rotten little thugs. I know they did not intend to kill him, but their malevolence is the direct cause of this adolescents death. While we stand by and make excuses for those who victimize and actively punish those who stand up to them and refuse to be victims things will only get worse, not better.

These little brats didn't 'bully' anyone. They committed manslaughter or arguably murder since there was intent and malice to harm their victim.

Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:56 AM
 
688 posts, read 551,416 times
Reputation: 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibelian View Post
What absurd b**ls**t. Stop shifting responsibility to where it doesn't belong. Is that the "conservative way" ?!?
Seriously. Bullying can happen to anyone, but nobody deserves it; especially a child. Why anyone would assign a political message to a child's untimely death is truly unfortunate, and only helps drive partisan bullsxxt.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:29 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,125 posts, read 21,965,509 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDJD View Post
Seriously. Bullying can happen to anyone, but nobody deserves it; especially a child. Why anyone would assign a political message to a child's untimely death is truly unfortunate, and only helps drive partisan bullsxxt.
This thread doesn't belong in this forum for the very reasons that you mentioned.

Tell that to the OP.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:00 AM
 
10,357 posts, read 7,950,091 times
Reputation: 4547
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea3821 View Post
I take back my previous assertion that the kids should be charged with some kind of murder or homicide. I just reread the article and it says he got pneumonia and had a blood transfusion and then was put into a medically induced coma. My MIL was sick and then got pneumonia as a complication and had to be put into a coma. The coma is not a direct result of the original thing that occurred, in this case, it would be the head trauma the boy suffered.

My question is, how would getting hit in the head a few times give one pneumonia?? That could be completely unrelated and seems to be the cause of his death, not the concussion or seizures. I agree with the other posters that more info is needed as kids do not normally die weeks after getting beaten up by 12 year olds. And if the dad thought something wasn't right, he should have taken him to get checked out instead of waiting for the onset of seizures, maybe they could have done something.

So while I don't condone physical violence, I think this was just boys being boys. They should probably be charged with assault instead.
If this had been your son, would you still think that it was "just boys being boys?"
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:05 AM
 
10,357 posts, read 7,950,091 times
Reputation: 4547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
This thread doesn't belong in this forum for the very reasons that you mentioned.

Tell that to the OP.
This forum is called "Politics and Other Controversies." That means it is not solely about politics, but anything that one might find controversial and worthy of discussion.
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