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Old 03-16-2013, 01:48 PM
 
9,466 posts, read 4,826,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua View Post
[snip]the beating.
What's the emotional rush you and a few others get from describing what happened as 'the beating' or 'beaten to death.' All I've seen is he was punched in the nose, a pretty common event from kids to adults. You want it it sound like the puncher jumped on him and pounded him into a pulp.
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Old 03-16-2013, 03:42 PM
 
10,357 posts, read 7,930,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama View Post
What's the emotional rush you and a few others get from describing what happened as 'the beating' or 'beaten to death.' All I've seen is he was punched in the nose, a pretty common event from kids to adults. You want it it sound like the puncher jumped on him and pounded him into a pulp.
Because he was beaten. It wasn't a ''fight" because according to his father, his son had told him he did not want to fight, and was attacked. He suffered a broken nose, and a concussion from the attack---findings which are not in dispute. Not long after that he developed constant seizures. Since he had no history of seizures before that, it would seem that the injuries led to his seizures. The case is currently under investigation and I hope they get to the bottom of it. I personally don't know anyone who has had their nose broken by being punched, nor anyone who has received a concussion in a fight---to me that would indicate a vicious attack, so I wouldn't say it's exactly common.

My question to you is why do you want to minimize it?
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Old 03-16-2013, 04:18 PM
 
9,466 posts, read 4,826,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
Because he was beaten. It wasn't a ''fight" because according to his father, his son had told him he did not want to fight, and was attacked. He suffered a broken nose, and a concussion from the attack---findings which are not in dispute. Not long after that he developed constant seizures. Since he had no history of seizures before that, it would seem that the injuries led to his seizures. The case is currently under investigation and I hope they get to the bottom of it. I personally don't know anyone who has had their nose broken by being punched, nor anyone who has received a concussion in a fight---to me that would indicate a vicious attack, so I wouldn't say it's exactly common.

My question to you is why do you want to minimize it?
Instead of waiting for the investigation, you're jumping to the conclusion that it was 'a vicious attack' and using phrases like 'beaten to death.' For whatever reason, probably to show how much you're against bullying and oh so empathetic with the child victim, you're rushing to judgment.

As for you not knowing anyone who had a broken nose from a punch, what can I say. Being punched along with sports injuries are probably the most common causes of broken noses.
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Old 03-16-2013, 04:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama View Post
Instead of waiting for the investigation, you're jumping to the conclusion that it was 'a vicious attack' and using phrases like 'beaten to death.' For whatever reason, probably to show how much you're against bullying and oh so empathetic with the child victim, you're rushing to judgment.

As for you not knowing anyone who had a broken nose from a punch, what can I say. Being punched along with sports injuries are probably the most common causes of broken noses.

If an attack results in a broken nose and concussion for the victim, then it's not "jumping to conclusions" to call the attack vicious.

Just imagine if you were outside in your neighborhood, and someone who didn't like you came up and punched you in the nose, breaking it, and knocked you to the ground so that you sustained a concussion. You were injured badly enough that you had to make a visit to the hospital. That's what happened to Bailey O'Neill. Would you not feel that you had been viciously attacked? And I'm not even talking about the part where after a while you would die from your injuries.

Just because this took place in a school yard doesn't make it any different, or more acceptable. Violence is violence. Injury is injury.
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Old 03-16-2013, 04:46 PM
 
7,371 posts, read 4,610,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
Because he was beaten. It wasn't a ''fight" because according to his father, his son had told him he did not want to fight, and was attacked. He suffered a broken nose, and a concussion from the attack---findings which are not in dispute.
Yes they are in dispute because that's not what has been reported. What has been reported is that he suffered a concussion from falling down. If you are punched and fall over and hit your head, then you were not beaten into a concussion. You were beaten into tripping. The tripping led to a concussion. You keep skipping the falling part. That's not a trivial part. That speaks to intent. There is no evidence that there was an intent to seriously injure him.
Quote:
Not long after that he developed constant seizures. Since he had no history of seizures before that, it would seem that the injuries led to his seizures. The case is currently under investigation and I hope they get to the bottom of it. I personally don't know anyone who has had their nose broken by being punched, nor anyone who has received a concussion in a fight---to me that would indicate a vicious attack, so I wouldn't say it's exactly common.
Maybe because he didn't receive a concussion in a fight. He received a concussion from falling down and hitting his head. The fact that you haven't heard of someone getting a concussion from a fight combined with this fight being between middle school kids should probably indicate that he didn't get the concussion from the fight.
Quote:
My question to you is why do you want to minimize it?
Because it shouldn't used to fuel a national anti-bullying craze. You see the craziness that leads to with Zero Tolerance policies having kids suspended for drawing a picture or folding a paper clip. Accidents happen. The kids who caused this should be thrown in juvenile hall. But there's no need to turn this into a national emergency. It was a typical schoolyard fight gone horribly wrong.
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Old 03-16-2013, 04:57 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
29,513 posts, read 16,386,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2 View Post
Yes they are in dispute because that's not what has been reported. What has been reported is that he suffered a concussion from falling down. If you are punched and fall over and hit your head, then you were not beaten into a concussion. You were beaten into tripping. The tripping led to a concussion. You keep skipping the falling part. That's not a trivial part. That speaks to intent. There is no evidence that there was an intent to seriously injure him.

Maybe because he didn't receive a concussion in a fight. He received a concussion from falling down and hitting his head. The fact that you haven't heard of someone getting a concussion from a fight combined with this fight being between middle school kids should probably indicate that he didn't get the concussion from the fight.


Because it shouldn't used to fuel a national anti-bullying craze. You see the craziness that leads to with Zero Tolerance policies having kids suspended for drawing a picture or folding a paper clip. Accidents happen. The kids who caused this should be thrown in juvenile hall. But there's no need to turn this into a national emergency. It was a typical schoolyard fight gone horribly wrong.
Doesn't matter in the cases I've seen. They hit him ~ caused the fall - caused the concussion and subsequent death. Guilty whether or not the punch was intended to kill. When you punch someone in the face - there are unpleasant consequences - for everyone. They may certainly say they didn't intend to seriously injure the boy (perpetrators of assault always say that) - but unfortunately for them, the causation is there. Experts will testify how the blow, then the fall - led to the concussion - which led to the seizures; which led to death. And these two boys will find their lives changed forever.

Unfortunately for all involved - things did go horribly wrong. They often do in a schoolyard brawl; a barroom brawl; or a simple skirmish after a drunken football game. I've seen them all.

It's not a national emergency; but I hate to see a dead young man treated with a 'after all, boys will be boys' kind of attitude. It's not quite that trite.
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Atlanta metro
5,645 posts, read 4,114,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
Because he was beaten. It wasn't a ''fight" because according to his father, his son had told him he did not want to fight, and was attacked. He suffered a broken nose, and a concussion from the attack---findings which are not in dispute. Not long after that he developed constant seizures. Since he had no history of seizures before that, it would seem that the injuries led to his seizures. The case is currently under investigation and I hope they get to the bottom of it. I personally don't know anyone who has had their nose broken by being punched, nor anyone who has received a concussion in a fight---to me that would indicate a vicious attack, so I wouldn't say it's exactly common.

My question to you is why do you want to minimize it?
It's called "facts," nobody is minimizing anything.

Again, the link you posted in your OP states he fell and his his head. You most certainly can sustain a concussion from falling down and hitting your head, especially if he fell onto something hard like pavement or wood. It also states he was punched in the face several times, which caused the broken nose.

So now are we only defining "fight" as an instance where both parties are throwing blows? I wouldn't call it an attack, and it probably wasn't vicious as the only things that occurred are what happen in a regular ol' fight. Punching, pushing, maybe kicking, we don't know.

Quote:
The boy was allegedly jumped by two classmates, one of whom hit him in the face several times fracturing his nose, his father Rob O'Neill told ABCNews.com. "It was an altercation in the schoolyard where kid wanted to fight my son, and my son wanted to walk away," Rob O'Neill said. "One boy pushed Bailey into the kid [who wanted to fight him]. That kid then hit him in the face, then he hit his head on the ground. One pushed him into the kid, then the other kid did the rest of the work."
Bailey was knocked on his head in the incident, his father said, which caused a concussion.
While I certainly do not agree with what happened, you need to call it what it is.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Atlanta metro
5,645 posts, read 4,114,117 times
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AND based on the above, it was not 2 against 1, one kid pushed him into the kid wanting to fight and that kid was the one who hit him and knocked him to the ground. Yes, two kids were involved as the aggressors but it wasn't exactly 2 against 1 when it came to the actual fighting.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:45 PM
 
10,357 posts, read 7,930,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea3821 View Post
It's called "facts," nobody is minimizing anything.

Again, the link you posted in your OP states he fell and his his head. You most certainly can sustain a concussion from falling down and hitting your head, especially if he fell onto something hard like pavement or wood. It also states he was punched in the face several times, which caused the broken nose.

So now are we only defining "fight" as an instance where both parties are throwing blows? I wouldn't call it an attack, and it probably wasn't vicious as the only things that occurred are what happen in a regular ol' fight. Punching, pushing, maybe kicking, we don't know.

While I certainly do not agree with what happened, you need to call it what it is.
Uh---yeah. ----He fell and hit his head because he was attacked. Again, take this incident out of the school-yard. You shove a neighbour during an argument, and he hits his head on the pavement, and gets a concussion. Tell me that you wouldn't be charged with assault.

In fact, I remember seeing a case on TV, in which a guy was shoplifting a magazine and the owner of the corner store caught him at it and pursued him outside the store. The thief simply shoved the owner to get him to stop pursuing him. Unfortunately the owner of the store hit his head on the pavement and died. The thief ended up with a life sentence.

You can't just attack someone, and then if they get hurt, say "Well I didn't mean to hurt (or kill) him." It doesn't work that way.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:59 PM
 
10,357 posts, read 7,930,045 times
Reputation: 4542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
Doesn't matter in the cases I've seen. They hit him ~ caused the fall - caused the concussion and subsequent death. Guilty whether or not the punch was intended to kill. When you punch someone in the face - there are unpleasant consequences - for everyone. They may certainly say they didn't intend to seriously injure the boy (perpetrators of assault always say that) - but unfortunately for them, the causation is there. Experts will testify how the blow, then the fall - led to the concussion - which led to the seizures; which led to death. And these two boys will find their lives changed forever.

Unfortunately for all involved - things did go horribly wrong. They often do in a schoolyard brawl; a barroom brawl; or a simple skirmish after a drunken football game. I've seen them all.

It's not a national emergency; but I hate to see a dead young man treated with a 'after all, boys will be boys' kind of attitude. It's not quite that trite.
It may not be an emergency but it's an epidemic. Some facts:

- It is estimated that 160,000 children miss school every day due to fear of attack or intimidation by other students. Source: National Education Association.

- American schools harbor approximately 2.1 million bullies and 2.7 million of their victims. Dan Olweus, National School Safety Center.

- 1 in 7 Students in Grades K-12 is either a bully or a victim of bullying.

- 56% of students have personally witnessed some type of bullying at school.

- 15% of all school absenteeism is directly related to fears of being bullied at school.

- 71% of students report incidents of bullying as a problem at their school.

- 1 out of 20 students has seen a student with a gun at school.

- 282,000 students are physically attacked in secondary schools each month."

1 in 4 teachers see nothing wrong with bullying and will only intervene 4 percent of the time.

Harassment and bullying have been linked to 75 percent of school-shooting incidents.

Bully Facts & Statistics

11 Facts About Bullying | Do Something
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