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Old 03-16-2013, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Atlanta metro
5,645 posts, read 4,132,446 times
Reputation: 983

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
Uh---yeah. ----He fell and hit his head because he was attacked. Again, take this incident out of the school-yard. You shove a neighbour during an argument, and he hits his head on the pavement, and gets a concussion. Tell me that you wouldn't be charged with assault.

In fact, I remember seeing a case on TV, in which a guy was shoplifting a magazine and the owner of the corner store caught him at it and pursued him outside the store. The thief simply shoved the owner to get him to stop pursuing him. Unfortunately the owner of the store hit his head on the pavement and died. The thief ended up with a life sentence.

You can't just attack someone, and then if they get hurt, say "Well I didn't mean to hurt (or kill) him." It doesn't work that way.
I'm feeling the need to personally attack you for how dense you're being, so just suffice it to say I am not going to repeat myself again, so listen closely: I am not saying they shouldn't be charged, I'm not saying they shouldn't have consequences, I'm not saying the kid deserved it or that I don't feel bad this happened to him and for what his family is now going through. What I'm saying is you don't need to peg everything as bullying and you need to stop with the hyperbole b/c it undermines your cause and your credibility.

The end.
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:04 PM
 
10,357 posts, read 7,984,823 times
Reputation: 4547
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2 View Post
Yes they are in dispute because that's not what has been reported. What has been reported is that he suffered a concussion from falling down. If you are punched and fall over and hit your head, then you were not beaten into a concussion. You were beaten into tripping. The tripping led to a concussion. You keep skipping the falling part. That's not a trivial part. That speaks to intent. There is no evidence that there was an intent to seriously injure him.

Maybe because he didn't receive a concussion in a fight. He received a concussion from falling down and hitting his head. The fact that you haven't heard of someone getting a concussion from a fight combined with this fight being between middle school kids should probably indicate that he didn't get the concussion from the fight.


Because it shouldn't used to fuel a national anti-bullying craze. You see the craziness that leads to with Zero Tolerance policies having kids suspended for drawing a picture or folding a paper clip. Accidents happen. The kids who caused this should be thrown in juvenile hall. But there's no need to turn this into a national emergency. It was a typical schoolyard fight gone horribly wrong.
"Beaten into tripping...."
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Old 03-17-2013, 07:08 AM
 
6,325 posts, read 6,685,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombieApocExtraordinaire View Post
Let's say this was bullying, what book are you going to throw at 12 year old boys for slapping another 12 year old boy?
Slapping caused a fractured nose and death?
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Old 03-17-2013, 07:33 AM
 
6,325 posts, read 6,685,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea3821 View Post
I take back my previous assertion that the kids should be charged with some kind of murder or homicide. I just reread the article and it says he got pneumonia and had a blood transfusion and then was put into a medically induced coma. My MIL was sick and then got pneumonia as a complication and had to be put into a coma. The coma is not a direct result of the original thing that occurred, in this case, it would be the head trauma the boy suffered.

My question is, how would getting hit in the head a few times give one pneumonia?? That could be completely unrelated and seems to be the cause of his death, not the concussion or seizures. I agree with the other posters that more info is needed as kids do not normally die weeks after getting beaten up by 12 year olds. And if the dad thought something wasn't right, he should have taken him to get checked out instead of waiting for the onset of seizures, maybe they could have done something.

So while I don't condone physical violence, I think this was just boys being boys. They should probably be charged with assault instead.
He probably caught pneumonia from being bedridden and immobile. Not sure of the time length he was in the hospital, but sounds like this was the underlying cause.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:42 AM
 
10,357 posts, read 7,984,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VLWH View Post
He probably caught pneumonia from being bedridden and immobile. Not sure of the time length he was in the hospital, but sounds like this was the underlying cause.
Not to mention if your brain is having non-stop seizures, since your brain controls respiration his breathing could have been all screwed up, contributing to the pneumonia.
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:23 AM
 
9,535 posts, read 4,874,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
It may not be an emergency but it's an epidemic. Some facts:

- It is estimated that 160,000 children miss school every day due to fear of attack or intimidation by other students. Source: National Education Association.

- American schools harbor approximately 2.1 million bullies and 2.7 million of their victims. Dan Olweus, National School Safety Center.

- 1 in 7 Students in Grades K-12 is either a bully or a victim of bullying.

- 56% of students have personally witnessed some type of bullying at school.

- 15% of all school absenteeism is directly related to fears of being bullied at school.

- 71% of students report incidents of bullying as a problem at their school.

- 1 out of 20 students has seen a student with a gun at school.

- 282,000 students are physically attacked in secondary schools each month."

1 in 4 teachers see nothing wrong with bullying and will only intervene 4 percent of the time.

Harassment and bullying have been linked to 75 percent of school-shooting incidents.

Bully Facts & Statistics

11 Facts About Bullying | Do Something
"282,000 students are physically attacked in secondary schools each month. Those in the lower grades reported being in twice as many fights as those in the higher grades."

You'll no doubt accuse me of supporting bullying and unprovoked attacks in schools, but .... If anything, those stats indicate that describing what happened is much closer to kids will be kids than your preference for beaten to death.

If the investigation proves the puncher hit a defenseless child, especially if he continued to hit him, I suppose he'll be charged with a crime.
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:30 AM
 
10,357 posts, read 7,984,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama View Post
"282,000 students are physically attacked in secondary schools each month. Those in the lower grades reported being in twice as many fights as those in the higher grades."

You'll no doubt accuse me of supporting bullying and unprovoked attacks in schools, but .... If anything, those stats indicate that describing what happened is much closer to kids will be kids than your preference for beaten to death.

If the investigation proves the puncher hit a defenseless child, especially if he continued to hit him, I suppose he'll be charged with a crime.
See, even here I don't agree with you. I don't see 282,000 students being physically attacked in high school each month as "kids will be kids." I see it as unacceptable violence.

We need to move from seeing it as "kids being kids" to seeing it as behavior that is unacceptable and that CAN be changed.

Can we eliminate all of it? No. But we sure can reduce it.

There is no reason that a kid should go to school each day in fear that he or she will be abused and beaten up, yet that is what thousands of kids face every day.

Kids need to be taught that it is not acceptable, and parents need to be taught that it's unacceptable too, from the sound of it.
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Old 03-17-2013, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Atlanta metro
5,645 posts, read 4,132,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VLWH View Post
He probably caught pneumonia from being bedridden and immobile. Not sure of the time length he was in the hospital, but sounds like this was the underlying cause.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
Not to mention if your brain is having non-stop seizures, since your brain controls respiration his breathing could have been all screwed up, contributing to the pneumonia.
Do you guys not understand how people get sick? Pneumonia is caused by bacteria or a virus, not just b/c you're sitting around or b/c your respiration is irregular. He was apparently sent to the hospital once and then went back home, and then was hospitalized again after having seizures. How do we know he didn't get pneumonia from someone while he was back home and THAT is what ultimately caused his death? That would be totally unrelated to the fight.

You will find any excuse to make this murder 1 for a couple of middle school kids in a schoolyard fight. Forget the facts and even the fact that we don't have a lot of facts, just make them up as you go to make this look as bad as possible. I suppose that's the typical liberal way anyway.
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Old 03-17-2013, 12:46 PM
 
10,357 posts, read 7,984,823 times
Reputation: 4547
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea3821 View Post
Do you guys not understand how people get sick? Pneumonia is caused by bacteria or a virus, not just b/c you're sitting around or b/c your respiration is irregular. He was apparently sent to the hospital once and then went back home, and then was hospitalized again after having seizures. How do we know he didn't get pneumonia from someone while he was back home and THAT is what ultimately caused his death? That would be totally unrelated to the fight.

You will find any excuse to make this murder 1 for a couple of middle school kids in a schoolyard fight. Forget the facts and even the fact that we don't have a lot of facts, just make them up as you go to make this look as bad as possible. I suppose that's the typical liberal way anyway.
And you just keep minimizing it. It wasn't a fight -- there is no evidence that it was a fight. I believe what the son told his father, that he was trying to walk away. One boy shoved the victim into another boy who proceeded to pummel him. A fight is when two people choose to fight each other, both people are physically striking each other. There's nothing to show that was the case here, and I don't see why you refuse to acknowledge it. Do you not believe that bullying exists?
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Old 03-17-2013, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Atlanta metro
5,645 posts, read 4,132,446 times
Reputation: 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
And you just keep minimizing it. It wasn't a fight -- there is no evidence that it was a fight. I believe what the son told his father, that he was trying to walk away. One boy shoved the victim into another boy who proceeded to pummel him. A fight is when two people choose to fight each other, both people are physically striking each other. There's nothing to show that was the case here, and I don't see why you refuse to acknowledge it. Do you not believe that bullying exists?
A "fight" is defined as a physical altercation between two or more individuals. It WAS a fight. Fighting also has nothing to do with choice as you say, do you think fights always occur when two people say "let's fight" and they go outside and start punching each other, like in movies? No. Things normally escalate from a verbal exchange to physical violence. It's not exactly a choice on the part of both parties.

I'm not refusing to acknowledge anything, I am going off the facts you presented. I'm not going to repeat myself again on that part of it if you choose not to read my posts.

I do believe bullying exists, but not to the extent that liberals would have us believe. Bullying and getting picked on is also part of growing up. Anybody over the age of probably 20 knows that. The zero tolerance crap is part of why people want to call anything and everything bullying nowadays. Once people get beyond high school and perhaps college, there is no kind of policy that stops people from being mean to one another. Toughen up and take it as a kid so you know how to handle it as an adult. Not to mention, once someone does something mean to you, you are less likely to do it to someone else if you have any kind of empathy at all.

I also draw the line when it turns physical. That is beyond bullying. Your entire OP is just a bunch of hyperbole ("12 y/o dies from bullying" ), as I have been saying the whole time, and it makes you look like some kind of crybaby do-gooder who just wants to whine about how unjust the world is and how people should stop hurting other people's feelings. That will never stop b/c we are human beings, in case you forgot.
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