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Old 03-12-2013, 10:44 AM
 
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Having watched 12 Angry Men once again, I began to think about how voters out there are uniformed due to rushed journalism that is written without much thought.

...I am tired of having liberalism being associated with the Obama-worshiping cult that doesn't know anything about what Obama does.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,825 posts, read 20,226,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid View Post
Having watched 12 Angry Men once again, I began to think about how voters out there are uniformed due to rushed journalism that is written without much thought.

...I am tired of having liberalism being associated with the Obama-worshiping cult that doesn't know anything about what Obama does.
That is an excellent movie, made even more extraordinary because the entire movie takes place in just one room.

People watch TV to be entertained, not to be educated. Calling it "journalism" these days is stretching the definition to its breaking point. There appears to be a cyclic pattern to how the news is reported. From around 1890 through the 1920s the news was reported with a strong right-wing bias. Very pro-war, very pro-capitalistic. By the 1930s that began to change. From the 1940s through the 1970s broadcasters took pride in keeping their personal opinion out of a story, by being as objective as possible. However, by the time CNN began broadcasting 24/7 in 1980 they began shaping how the public perceived events in the manner that they reported the news (and by the news stories they chose not to report). By 1992 even CBS, NBC, ABC, and CNN admitted to their deliberate bias in their reporting toward getting Clinton elected. Thus, a market demand for a competitor to the now very liberal media was created and Fox News filled that void in 1996.

All the news media outlets today, including Fox News, are providing their audience with what they want - a news format that is entertaining and laced with personal opinions. It is not good enough for them to just report the news, they also have to tell you how you should think about the news.

The good news is that there is alternatives. Unfortunately, it puts the onus on the user to seek out their own news, and it is much easier to sit back and have the news fed to you even though it comes with an agenda.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:21 AM
 
7,371 posts, read 4,637,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid View Post
Having watched 12 Angry Men once again, I began to think about how voters out there are uniformed due to rushed journalism that is written without much thought.

...I am tired of having liberalism being associated with the Obama-worshiping cult that doesn't know anything about what Obama does.
Originally there was no objective journalism. If you look at the newspapers from the early 1800s they are nothing but propaganda tracts from both sides of the issues. They did report some hard news stories accurately but it wasn't because of any duty or responsibility to do so. They'd have one hard news story next to an opinion filled piece with nothing distinguishing between the two of them. The idea of objective journalism was there, but it was a while before it took hold as a dominant philosophy. The early part of the 20th century is really where objective journalism was an almost universally accepted standard. Then in the 1960s things changed again. It was the theory of civic journalism wherein journalists have a responsibility not just to report what happened but to use their position to effect positive change. And what happens is that those stories end up making for more entertaining reading than simply a dry recitation of the facts. So competition between news outlets forces them all to become entertaining to keep attracting customers. So if you want a real answer to your question and not just some partisan bashing of one side or the other, that's it. I've read a few articles about the history of journalism. Often at this point ethics in journalism is simply "don't lie outright".
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:26 AM
 
9,665 posts, read 8,659,281 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2 View Post
Originally there was no objective journalism. If you look at the newspapers from the early 1800s they are nothing but propaganda tracts from both sides of the issues.
I wonder how people knew who to vote for then...
Uninformed voters are dangerous voters.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:29 AM
 
7,371 posts, read 4,637,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
That is an excellent movie, made even more extraordinary because the entire movie takes place in just one room.
I agree. Massively good movie. Seen both the original and the remake and both were great. Riveting tension.

Quote:
People watch TV to be entertained, not to be educated. Calling it "journalism" these days is stretching the definition to its breaking point. There appears to be a cyclic pattern to how the news is reported. From around 1890 through the 1920s the news was reported with a strong right-wing bias. Very pro-war, very pro-capitalistic. By the 1930s that began to change. From the 1940s through the 1970s broadcasters took pride in keeping their personal opinion out of a story, by being as objective as possible. However, by the time CNN began broadcasting 24/7 in 1980 they began shaping how the public perceived events in the manner that they reported the news (and by the news stories they chose not to report). By 1992 even CBS, NBC, ABC, and CNN admitted to their deliberate bias in their reporting toward getting Clinton elected. Thus, a market demand for a competitor to the now very liberal media was created and Fox News filled that void in 1996.
Once one side does it, the other side is forced to follow suit or surrender the advantage. Thus the whole system breaks. Leftist journalists took the idea of using journalism to effect positive change - what's behind things like segments on health and consumer reports - and made it into using journalism to effect political change. And then the right responded in kind.

Quote:
All the news media outlets today, including Fox News, are providing their audience with what they want - a news format that is entertaining and laced with personal opinions. It is not good enough for them to just report the news, they also have to tell you how you should think about the news.

The good news is that there is alternatives. Unfortunately, it puts the onus on the user to seek out their own news, and it is much easier to sit back and have the news fed to you even though it comes with an agenda.
Despite the lack of fact checking, I think the "new media" is overall a positive change in that it lets anybody get their reports out there. If the news is going to be biased anyway, at least it isn't completely controlled by moneyed interests.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:32 AM
 
4,414 posts, read 3,356,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid View Post
I wonder how people knew who to vote for then...
Uninformed voters are dangerous voters.
Because the papers of the day were usually very open about their biases and presented stories from many points of view, nit just from this left-right false dichotomy we have today.

Frankly, I think a lot of the complaints about FOX News would probably go away if they were just open with their viewers about being their obvious bias. But I guess you can't complain about the "biased liberal MSM" if you're being honest about your own biases.

Quote:
...I am tired of having liberalism being associated with the Obama-worshiping cult that doesn't know anything about what Obama does.
Say what now?
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,825 posts, read 20,226,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2 View Post
I agree. Massively good movie. Seen both the original and the remake and both were great. Riveting tension.
I never saw the remake. Just like I will never see the remake of the Four Feathers, or True Grit. Some movies are inviolable.

The 12 Angry Men movie only works because it is so well written, and performed by top-notch actors giving a very convincing performance. It epitomized the mindset of the day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2 View Post
Once one side does it, the other side is forced to follow suit or surrender the advantage. Thus the whole system breaks. Leftist journalists took the idea of using journalism to effect positive change - what's behind things like segments on health and consumer reports - and made it into using journalism to effect political change. And then the right responded in kind.
Absolutely, it is self-correcting in that sense. The market will find balance eventually. By balance I mean, either all the broadcasters will be openly biased, one way or the other, or they will all try to be as objective as possible. Whatever the people want most. Currently, the people want to be entertained and a hard cold fact is not entertaining unless one expresses an opinion about that fact.

"Using journalism to effect political change" is also known as "propaganda," and you are right. Today's media would have made Joseph Goebbels proud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2 View Post
Despite the lack of fact checking, I think the "new media" is overall a positive change in that it lets anybody get their reports out there. If the news is going to be biased anyway, at least it isn't completely controlled by moneyed interests.
True, and one can always find the news not being reported by US media simply by looking at foreign sources. Even if they are biased, which the vast majority are, one can still glean some useful information.

My preferred news source: Thousands of Online Newspapers on the Web : World Newspaper Directory : Listed on OnlineNewspapers.com
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:11 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
9,033 posts, read 8,747,295 times
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My favorite news source is this one.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:22 PM
 
7,371 posts, read 4,637,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid View Post
I wonder how people knew who to vote for then...
Uninformed voters are dangerous voters.
If you look at the history of the times, people were far more involved in politics back then. It was common then for people to meet up at pubs and discuss the issues. Nowadays people meet up in bars to watch football games. So the paper could be more about convincing people outright to support your opinion as opposed to informing people about events. Back then there were a lot less people, a lot less international involvement, etc. Simply a lot less issues to deal with and a populace that was more interested in them so a single biased news article wouldn't be the sum total of what they knew about an issue then the way it is today.
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,505 posts, read 23,777,641 times
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Twelve Angry men. Excellent film.

"journalism" in this country has died.

The media and its agenda today do NOT have the publics best interest at heart.

Membership Roster - Council on Foreign Relations
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