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What a brilliantly transparent strawman; at no time did I ever characterize Texans as "vigilantes".
What nobody has yet to explain (without suspiciously racist blames of America's greater "diversity") is why the borderline socialist EU nations have such low violent crime rates, while ours' are sky high.
Please, whoever attributed this to our "culture", feel free to elaborate.
Oh come on. Are you so limited in your knowledge of American history to not know that guns have been part of American life for centuries? It is and undeniable cultural factor.
Japan has extremely low crime overall - of all kinds. There are very few guns in citizen's hands. But that has been true since post WWII. But that explains very little about crime in Japan. Their culture is very different. They don't steal either, even without fear of being caught.
1. If guns deter crime, why is America's violent crime rate so much higher than that of the borderline socialist, typically anti-gun Europe? Why is Texas's crime rate so much higher than that of, say, Massachusetts? Shouldn't Texas be the safest region on Earth?
A state with no right to gun ownership can confiscate all guns. A state with gun rights can only control the legal guns. A smaller and less populous state can control guns more easily than a large state with more people. The constant comparisons to places like England are illegitimate comparisons. As are comparisons to places with vastly different cultures that have different crime rates in other areas too where the difference cannot be attributed to the lack of guns.
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2. How does the second amendment forbid gun control legislation? Does the first amendment forbid libel and slander laws? Why is the second amendment taken to be absolute, while far more fundamental liberties are frequently curbed in the name of security (cough cough Patriot cough cough act)?
It says the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. That's how the second amendment forbids gun legislation. By outright forbidding it.
The first amendment does not forbid slander laws in the same way the the second amendment does not forbid crime laws. Slander is outlawed, not speech. It's not a proper analogy. It's not the speech that is outlawed it is using the speech to commit a crime. Similarly, using a gun to murder someone is illegal.
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3. To those who use the "ban guns and criminals will just obtain them illegally" argument, do you support the war on drugs as well?
No, I don't.
But just for the sake of argument, there is no right to take drugs. There is a right to own a gun.
1. If guns deter crime, why is America's violent crime rate so much higher than that of the borderline socialist, typically anti-gun Europe? Why is Texas's crime rate so much higher than that of, say, Massachusetts? Shouldn't Texas be the safest region on Earth?
2. How does the second amendment forbid gun control legislation? Does the first amendment forbid libel and slander laws? Why is the second amendment taken to be absolute, while far more fundamental liberties are frequently curbed in the name of security (cough cough Patriot cough cough act)?
3. To those who use the "ban guns and criminals will just obtain them illegally" argument, do you support the war on drugs as well?
1. It is the people who are the problem, not the tool. Just recently a guy got charged with assault with a weapon for hitting somebody with a clothes iron!
2. What part of "shall not be infringed" is so difficult to understand? Besides, the Supreme Court has expanded "freedom of speech" to "freedom of expression", to include burning draft cards, painting signs, etc.; and expanded The "Congress shall make no law" to be freedom FROM religion, even in the total absence of any law passed by Congress, even to incorporating the "separation of Church and State" into law, even though it is a statement made by Tom Jefferson in a PERSONAL letter, and appears nowhere in Federal law!
3. No, I do NOT support the "war on drugs"! It is as big a failure as the original "assault weapon ban". No, it is worse; it has cost more lives and more money than any failed Federal program in history. IMO, ALL the junk should be legal, and heavily taxed just like alcohol and tobacco. No, I have never used it, except for cigarettes. They were bad enough, and I quit when they added a $1 per pack tax on them. Now they cost over $100 per carton in some areas! Let those who want drugs have them, I don't care. Keep the crap away from anyone under 18, and allow employers to have a drug-free work place if they wish. You want to work there, don't do drugs, period. You want to drive, don't do drugs. I am in favor of when you get caught driving under the influence, you lose your license to drive, you lose your insurance, and the vehicle you were driving is confiscated and sold, unless you stole it, then you get charged with Grand Theft Auto as well as DUI. If the vehicle is financed, you still owe the bank for it, and they can sue you to get their money. The buyer gets a clear title from the state.
You cannot pick and choose places and legislation. Otherwise you need to explain why Chicago and Wash DC have such high murder rates in spite of strict gun legislation.
Do you have statistics to cite gun ownership in Texas? Or are you just repeating what many think about Texas? Texas doesn't have the most (per capita) guns. According to the link below, Texas ranks 30th.
Texas' violent crime rate is almost the same as California - middle of the pack. Guess what - both are border states, with a highly diverse population.
What is Massachusetts? It isn't a border state. It also isn't diverse.
For your constitutional question - I don't believe the 2nd amendment prevents any and all laws concerning firearms. I believe it guarantees our right to possess them. Most of all that means firearms are fundamentally legal to own and the government cannot take them from its citizens.
As for drugs - I think some drugs currently illegal should be generally legal. I really don't see a material difference between alcohol and marijuana.
Good points. A lot of the crimes involving firearms in TX and CA are done by cartel sponsored street gangs warring over turf with home grown gangs. Ala MS 13 vs Crips as one example.
I agree with your take on the drug war as well. Personally, I think that Pot is FAR less damaging than booze. It does not impair judgement nearly as bad as alcohol, anx I have yet to see it trigger violent behavior and blackouts. The only thing in real danger from someone smoking weed is the leftovers in the fridge or the candy aisle at the closest Stop n Go. Lol.
Its interesting, how liberals automatically assume that we 2A supporters all have totally narrow minds on other issues. As if the left has the corner on the market for all broader thinking. Lmao, personally, I think that tighter restrictions on booze, and making weed legal would drop domestic violence and deaths on our roads by a factor of 10, in a short amount of time.
1. If guns deter crime, why is America's violent crime rate so much higher than that of the borderline socialist, typically anti-gun Europe? Why is Texas's crime rate so much higher than that of, say, Massachusetts? Shouldn't Texas be the safest region on Earth?
2. How does the second amendment forbid gun control legislation? Does the first amendment forbid libel and slander laws? Why is the second amendment taken to be absolute, while far more fundamental liberties are frequently curbed in the name of security (cough cough Patriot cough cough act)?
3. To those who use the "ban guns and criminals will just obtain them illegally" argument, do you support the war on drugs as well?
Why the heck did you pick Texas?
Texas has some very restrictive gun laws. CHL permits require a 10 hour class, including range time prooving proficiency with the firearm, and renewal courses to retain the license every 5 years. Some states you can obtain your CHL thru MAIL.
Open carry in Texas is always illegal and will get you arrested, conceal carry is also illegal unless you have a valid permit. Many other states allow open carry.
Americans are a nosey, violent society. Why else would shows like Jerry Springer have become so popular. Accident on the side of the road, we ALL slow down to Gawk, even when it's on the other side of the highway barricade.
Because that does not fit his agenda. They have to find something to make it look bad.
there are counties in Wyoming that have not had a murder in years.
I wonder what the actual gun crime rate would be in the USA if we took out all the gun crime that is criminal vs criminal and then re added. want to bet it would lower?
well, actually, Wyoming has better gun laws and more firearms than texas does. why not compare Wyoming to your gun control haven like washinton dc? that way you can get a better sense of the word "gun control".
they both have about the same amount of people. that way we can get a better look at the amount of crime compared to the like amount of people in an area.
Add South Dakota, North Dakota, Idaho and Montana to that list. These states aren't saddled with the numbers of criminal aliens that contribute so heavily to the violent crime rate in Texas, and all have some of the lowest violent crime rates in the country. Along with some of the most "liberal" gun laws.
These states are amongst the least densely populated in the union.
nope, does not matter. population is about the same, then all that gun control should make a difference no matter what the density is.
hell, dc should be one of the safest places in the USA considering its gun control, instead it is one of the worst.
murder capitol of the USA for how many years?
Last edited by monkeywrenching; 03-12-2013 at 06:17 PM..
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