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Old 03-12-2013, 02:07 PM
 
775 posts, read 631,820 times
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1. If guns deter crime, why is America's violent crime rate so much higher than that of the borderline socialist, typically anti-gun Europe? Why is Texas's crime rate so much higher than that of, say, Massachusetts? Shouldn't Texas be the safest region on Earth?

2. How does the second amendment forbid gun control legislation? Does the first amendment forbid libel and slander laws? Why is the second amendment taken to be absolute, while far more fundamental liberties are frequently curbed in the name of security (cough cough Patriot cough cough act)?

3. To those who use the "ban guns and criminals will just obtain them illegally" argument, do you support the war on drugs as well?
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:13 PM
 
18,262 posts, read 10,360,166 times
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It's all about mindset and upbringing, as a very big illegal deal up here would simply be a normal 'boys-will-be-boys' event down there.

Police seize huge cache of weapons in Eastern Ontario home - News - MSN CA

This goes towards the reference to "borderline socialist, typically anti-gun" descriptor as it is often also applied to Canada by folks below the 49th.
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:17 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,884 posts, read 13,029,106 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan View Post
1. If guns deter crime, why is America's violent crime rate so much higher than that of the borderline socialist, typically anti-gun Europe? Why is Texas's crime rate so much higher than that of, say, Massachusetts? Shouldn't Texas be the safest region on Earth?

2. How does the second amendment forbid gun control legislation? Does the first amendment forbid libel and slander laws? Why is the second amendment taken to be absolute, while far more fundamental liberties are frequently curbed in the name of security (cough cough Patriot cough cough act)?

3. To those who use the "ban guns and criminals will just obtain them illegally" argument, do you support the war on drugs as well?


well, actually, Wyoming has better gun laws and more firearms than texas does. why not compare Wyoming to your gun control haven like washinton dc? that way you can get a better sense of the word "gun control".
they both have about the same amount of people. that way we can get a better look at the amount of crime compared to the like amount of people in an area.
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,720 posts, read 25,525,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan View Post
1. If guns deter crime, why is America's violent crime rate so much higher than that of the borderline socialist, typically anti-gun Europe? Why is Texas's crime rate so much higher than that of, say, Massachusetts? Shouldn't Texas be the safest region on Earth?

2. How does the second amendment forbid gun control legislation? Does the first amendment forbid libel and slander laws? Why is the second amendment taken to be absolute, while far more fundamental liberties are frequently curbed in the name of security (cough cough Patriot cough cough act)?

3. To those who use the "ban guns and criminals will just obtain them illegally" argument, do you support the war on drugs as well?
You cannot pick and choose places and legislation. Otherwise you need to explain why Chicago and Wash DC have such high murder rates in spite of strict gun legislation.

Do you have statistics to cite gun ownership in Texas? Or are you just repeating what many think about Texas? Texas doesn't have the most (per capita) guns. According to the link below, Texas ranks 30th.

Gun Ownership, by State - Guns, by State - Gun Owners Percentage by State

Texas' violent crime rate is almost the same as California - middle of the pack. Guess what - both are border states, with a highly diverse population.

What is Massachusetts? It isn't a border state. It also isn't diverse.

For your constitutional question - I don't believe the 2nd amendment prevents any and all laws concerning firearms. I believe it guarantees our right to possess them. Most of all that means firearms are fundamentally legal to own and the government cannot take them from its citizens.

As for drugs - I think some drugs currently illegal should be generally legal. I really don't see a material difference between alcohol and marijuana.
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,487 posts, read 17,618,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
well, actually, Wyoming has better gun laws and more firearms than texas does. why not compare Wyoming to your gun control haven like washinton dc? that way you can get a better sense of the word "gun control".
they both have about the same amount of people. that way we can get a better look at the amount of crime compared to the like amount of people in an area.
Add South Dakota, North Dakota, Idaho and Montana to that list. These states aren't saddled with the numbers of criminal aliens that contribute so heavily to the violent crime rate in Texas, and all have some of the lowest violent crime rates in the country. Along with some of the most "liberal" gun laws.

Last edited by Toyman at Jewel Lake; 03-12-2013 at 02:36 PM..
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:27 PM
 
775 posts, read 631,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
You cannot pick and choose places and legislation.
Of course not. Texas was a colorful example - a more objective view of crime rates in general, however, demonstrates a sharp correlation between accessibility to guns and murder rates, even when the opposite should be true by conservative logic.

Quote:
Texas' violent crime rate is almost the same as California - middle of the pack. Guess what - both are border states, with a highly diverse population.

What is Massachusetts? It isn't a border state. It also isn't diverse.
...

Can someone translate conservative-speak here, and tell me what hoffdano is trying to say here?


.....


Quote:
Add South Dakota, North Dakota, Idaho and Montana to that list. These states aren't saddled with the numbers of criminal aliens that contribute so heavily to the violent crime rate in Texas.
Feel free to cite your statistics demonstrating that illegal aliens commit a large enough portion of crimes in southern states to account for their higher crime rate.
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:28 PM
 
51,862 posts, read 41,765,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan View Post
1. If guns deter crime, why is America's violent crime rate so much higher than that of the borderline socialist, typically anti-gun Europe? Why is Texas's crime rate so much higher than that of, say, Massachusetts? Shouldn't Texas be the safest region on Earth?
Translation: I don't know how to use statistics or form reasoned opinions, but fortunately the anonymity of the internet protects me from the humiliation a normal person would otherwise feel.
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:30 PM
 
16,272 posts, read 9,107,040 times
Reputation: 6548
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
well, actually, Wyoming has better gun laws and more firearms than texas does. why not compare Wyoming to your gun control haven like washinton dc? that way you can get a better sense of the word "gun control".
they both have about the same amount of people. that way we can get a better look at the amount of crime compared to the like amount of people in an area.

oops
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
3,039 posts, read 2,166,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Translation: I don't know how to use statistics or form reasoned opinions, but fortunately the anonymity of the internet protects me from the humiliation a normal person would otherwise feel.
Best post of the day.
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
15,202 posts, read 18,249,480 times
Reputation: 8032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan View Post
1. If guns deter crime, why is America's violent crime rate so much higher than that of the borderline socialist, typically anti-gun Europe? Why is Texas's crime rate so much higher than that of, say, Massachusetts? Shouldn't Texas be the safest region on Earth?
Why did you choose Texas? There are much more gun-friendly states.

Anyway, if you're going to try and use a single metric to make comparisons about a complex issue such as this, then you're not worth taking seriously.

I've said it a dozen times, and apparently I need to say it a dozen more - guns aren't the problem in this country. The culture is. Read that over and over, until it penetrates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan View Post
2. How does the second amendment forbid gun control legislation?
"Shall not be infringed."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan View Post
Does the first amendment forbid libel and slander laws?
Those are civil offenses, not criminal.

(Why do I bother?? )
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