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Old 03-12-2013, 08:16 PM
 
7,371 posts, read 4,640,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilly1224 View Post
Yes, I am essentially saying that there is no difference between white conservatives and white liberals. I'm therefore trying to figure out why blacks continue to support liberals with 95% of their vote..
Because liberals have a message that blacks are disadvantaged due to racism, which gives black people an identity as a victimized people. Liberals then point to conservatives who are the ones perpetuating that racism. This is an extremely powerful narrative. People who see themselves as a victimized group will band together, they will resent that victimhood, they will want justice for that victimhood, etc. Despite the fact that in five decades of liberal policy for the minority community, it hasn't improved that narrative is still holding strong. Liberals simply say the reason the policies haven't worked is because conservatives keep holding the black man down.

Liberals demonize any attempts to look at the cultural problems in the black community - namely, single motherhood and a lack of emphasis on education - as being racist. The fact is that having a child out of wedlock is the single largest factor in predicting poverty both for the mother and the child, irrespective of race. Also, education is an extremely major predictor in how an individual will do socioeconomically in life. But treatment of these issues is prevented by adherence to the politically correct notion that blacks are simply victims of racism and that explains their problems.

Liberals promote a safety net that allows people in poverty to remain in poverty. Instead of providing job placement, skills training, daycare, etc they simply provide checks. That just perpetuates poverty. They then demonize conservatives as wanting to take those checks away. And while blacks on poverty are the minority of blacks, that affects the thinking of many blacks. It is the same as how illegal immigration is a big issue for hispanics. Even though the hispanics who are voters aren't the ones who are illegal aliens, they still identify with those hispanics, and will vote accordingly. A middle class black person will identify as "black" more than he will as "middle class" and therefore vote accordingly, even if he doesn't get government aid himself.

Liberals do this over and over again. Identify women as a class and blame conservatives for their problems. Identify homosexuals as a class and blame conservatives for their problems. Identify hispanics as a class and blame conservatives for their problems. Identify blacks as a class and blame conservatives for their problems. Identify poor people as a class and blame conservatives for their problems. For each class they then come up with a few benefits that they offer that class, and then set themselves up as champions of those benefits. It works every times. Because the victimhood philosophy is simply attractive to human nature. It is human nature to have an "us" vs "them" mentality, to see your problems as being caused by an outside group. It's scapegoating. The Romans did it with the Carthaginians. The Germans did it with the Jews. The Palestinians do it with the Israelis, and the Israelis do it with the Palestinians. It is well known throughout history and within sociology and psychology that a common enemy unites people. The liberal vs conservative debate used to be one about economics and policies but then in the 1960s the liberals hit on identity politics and have been using it every since. Republicans do it too, but they try to put everyone into an "Americans" group and set it against communists or terrorists or whatever the enemy is that year. But the Americans group is simply too nebulous and vague to appeal to people like the women and black groups are so they just aren't as good at it as liberals are.

 
Old 03-12-2013, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Bethesda, MD
810 posts, read 814,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
I LOVE when people from the far right expose how they think.
Yes, but in truth, that viewpoint is also expressed by liberals. Hence my point. There is no difference between the two groups.

I don't subscribe to any political parties, I just wish that more blacks would admit the truth about white liberalism.
 
Old 03-12-2013, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Bethesda, MD
810 posts, read 814,480 times
Reputation: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
Maybe because they can see past a few examples of racism, or even past that one issue altogether - and actually care about how each side feels in terms of institutional discrimination? And I bet if you visited a racist website (i.e. Stormfront or KKK), they wouldn't be so liberal in their political leanings either. So why would you/they want to be part of a group that (in some segments) doesn't want them?

But what do I know? I'm neither a Democrat nor Black, so my views probably don't count for much here... but as a San Franciscan, I have to say your opinions there are skewed to say the least.
My point is, white liberals are often the same way. I'm beginning to sound like a broken record.
 
Old 03-12-2013, 08:22 PM
 
10,357 posts, read 7,983,248 times
Reputation: 4547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilly1224 View Post
Yes, but in truth, that viewpoint is also expressed by liberals. Hence my point. There is no difference between the two groups.

I don't subscribe to any political parties, I just wish that more blacks would admit the truth about white liberalism.
Because a store owner in NYC thought Forrest Whitaker had stolen something, this somehow proves that white liberals are racist? Maybe the store owner was a raving racist Conservative. Not every single person who lives in NYC is a liberal. Or maybe he was a raving racist Liberal. It still doesn't prove anything about the point you are trying to make.
 
Old 03-12-2013, 08:24 PM
 
10,357 posts, read 7,983,248 times
Reputation: 4547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilly1224 View Post
My point is, white liberals are often the same way. I'm beginning to sound like a broken record.
Here's the logic of the argument you are making.

I saw a red-haired person choose to buy Golden Delicious apples today at the grocery store.

Therefore, all red-haired people like Golden Delicious apples.
 
Old 03-12-2013, 08:24 PM
 
32,532 posts, read 30,681,510 times
Reputation: 32349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilly1224 View Post
Yes, but in truth, that viewpoint is also expressed by liberals.


Odd how you chose to claim that rather than disavow that viewpoint entirely. But carry on. Your shovel awaits and the hole is expanding.
 
Old 03-12-2013, 08:30 PM
 
7,371 posts, read 4,640,144 times
Reputation: 3133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilly1224 View Post
I am black. Again, I'm trying to point out that very liberal environments do not differ much from very conservative environments. Black people seem very aware of the typical white conservative mindset, but many seem to be in the dark about the typical liberal mindset.
No, they aren't aware of it, they've been told about it. If they were aware of it, then they'd realize there is no white racist conservative mindset. If you look at actual black conservatives - who experience the actual conservative movement from inside it - then you see they do not blame conservatives for racism. If there were rampant racism in conservatism, then you'd think blacks who wanted to be conservative on things would form their own conservative movement. But they don't. They join right in with white conservatives and then say "there really isn't any racism here" and for their trouble they are labeled as uncle toms, oreos, and race traitors. People would rather hang onto their preconceptions than have to reexamine their worldview based on the evidence offered by real black people who are real conservatives.

There simply is no racist conservative mindest. This is not 1965 anymore. That was half a century ago.
 
Old 03-12-2013, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Bethesda, MD
810 posts, read 814,480 times
Reputation: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2 View Post
Because liberals have a message that blacks are disadvantaged due to racism, which gives black people an identity as a victimized people. Liberals then point to conservatives who are the ones perpetuating that racism. This is an extremely powerful narrative. People who see themselves as a victimized group will band together, they will resent that victimhood, they will want justice for that victimhood, etc. Despite the fact that in five decades of liberal policy for the minority community, it hasn't improved that narrative is still holding strong. Liberals simply say the reason the policies haven't worked is because conservatives keep holding the black man down.
I believe liberals and conservatives work in concert w/ each other. The liberal pretends to be the "white saving grace," while the conservative behaves in the opposite fashion. This creates the binary and gives each side an active continuous opponent.

Quote:
Liberals demonize any attempts to look at the cultural problems in the black community - namely, single motherhood and a lack of emphasis on education - as being racist. The fact is that having a child out of wedlock is the single largest factor in predicting poverty both for the mother and the child, irrespective of race. Also, education is an extremely major predictor in how an individual will do socioeconomically in life. But treatment of these issues is prevented by adherence to the politically correct notion that blacks are simply victims of racism and that explains their problems.
All very true, but on the opposite end of the spectrum, you have ample examples of white pathologies and no one seems very concerned with correcting the behaviors of the people in trailer parks. I guess it's because the conservatives continue to get the poor white vote, so they let the pathological/meth abusing behaviors slide. Again, one in the same. One group uses poor blacks, while the other uses poor whites. Interestingly, both groups pit poor whites and poor blacks against each other. Libs and conservatives are both very crafty indeed!

Quote:
Liberals promote a safety net that allows people in poverty to remain in poverty. Instead of providing job placement, skills training, daycare, etc they simply provide checks. That just perpetuates poverty. They then demonize conservatives as wanting to take those checks away. And while blacks on poverty are the minority of blacks, that affects the thinking of many blacks. It is the same as how illegal immigration is a big issue for hispanics. Even though the hispanics who are voters aren't the ones who are illegal aliens, they still identify with those hispanics, and will vote accordingly. A middle class black person will identify as "black" more than he will as "middle class" and therefore vote accordingly, even if he doesn't get government aid himself.
All very true, but again, let's review the opposite end of the spectrum. Conservatives are in favor of corporate loop holes, big banks and exporting jobs. So again, two sides of the same coin.

Quote:
The liberal vs conservative debate used to be one about economics and policies but then in the 1960s the liberals hit on identity politics and have been using it every since. Republicans do it too, but they try to put everyone into an "Americans" group and set it against communists or terrorists or whatever the enemy is that year. But the Americans group is simply too nebulous and vague to appeal to people like the women and black groups are so they just aren't as good at it as liberals are.
I would say conservatives are very good at using identity politics. Again, they repeatedly get low income whites to vote in favor of big banks and off shoring ..

Libs and Conservatives use the same play book.
 
Old 03-12-2013, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Bethesda, MD
810 posts, read 814,480 times
Reputation: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2 View Post
No, they aren't aware of it, they've been told about it. If they were aware of it, then they'd realize there is no white racist conservative mindset. If you look at actual black conservatives - who experience the actual conservative movement from inside it - then you see they do not blame conservatives for racism.
This is simply untrue. Black conservatives such as Clarence Thomas have cried racism and spoke out against his own "party." In fact, he did it publicly during the Anita Hill hearing. LOL He accused the all white republican senators of trying to lynch him, and demanded that they simply ignore Anita Hill. Again, this is all public information. The video archive is available on youtube.

And there are plenty of other examples.
 
Old 03-12-2013, 08:38 PM
 
1,731 posts, read 1,167,069 times
Reputation: 760
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Wonderful.

I don't give a damn about what happened to Forest Whitaker. That doesn't have a damn thing to do with how I VOTE!!

You think I should consider voting for the Republican Party based on a random incident in NYC? How stupid is that?

Frickin' condescending ass conservatives! SMH...unreal.
See I told everybody libs are angry racists.
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