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I should've said this in the OP, this is more of a hypothetical question in regards to paying the price for American goods. Of course it's nearly impossible to buy strictly from one particular country, hell even in North Korea it isn't possible to do that, but I wanted to know if American goods had a higher price than something made in say China, but was similar in quality and possible longevity, would you be willing to pay the higher price for the American goods?
When exactly did America become a place where people didn't want to pay the price for quality goods?
That's easy to answer: when cheap alternatives flooded our markets. Even if at the time these were mainly inferior products, people didn't care as long as they though they had a bargain. US corporations were alarmed and did what they always do: imitate the competition. So they went east in search of cheap manufacturing.
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Did companies just move to save a buck and didn't want regulation, or did they do it because they believed the consumer wanted lower prices? I'm positive if the 'Cheap Invasion' as I call it never happened, Americans would've been fine paying $50 for a shirt because we'd ultimately have more cash in our pockets.
America was the perfect environment for cheap imports: we have supermarkets, maga stores and chains. If you penetrate one such monster, you instantly have at least 1M customers. Countries like Japan were almost impossible to penetrate for decades: they still preferred their small grocery and independent local store. Customers were always loyal to domestic products and valued personal relations. Small shop-owners were suspicious of unknown goods made by foreigners. America on the other hand, is the opposite. Americans have no loyalty and don't care. It also happened at a time when US started being flooded with poor immigrants from Mexico and central America. These immigrants were the target for many cheap imports.
That's easy to answer: when cheap alternatives flooded our markets. Even if at the time these were mainly inferior products, people didn't care as long as they though they had a bargain. US corporations were alarmed and did what they always do: imitate the competition. So they went east in search of cheap manufacturing.
America was the perfect environment for cheap imports: we have supermarkets, maga stores and chains. If you penetrate one such monster, you instantly have at least 1M customers. Countries like Japan were almost impossible to penetrate for decades: they still preferred their small grocery and independent local store. Customers were always loyal to domestic products and valued personal relations. Small shop-owners were suspicious of unknown goods made by foreigners. America on the other hand, is the opposite. Americans have no loyalty and don't care. It also happened at a time when US started being flooded with poor immigrants from Mexico and central America. These immigrants were the target for many cheap imports.
So where did the cheap goods come from? Our factories moved East, that's correct but before our factories moved where were the cheap goods coming from? If everything was being made here, why did companies all of a sudden believe that they can move to a different nation? We were already willing to pay the price for American goods but it seems like companies decided upon themselves to lower the prices and that ultimately screwed us.
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
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Originally Posted by BruSan
Look at your RV industry as an example of one with still very little off-shore competition but manages to build junk and sell it to you because why.....you routinely demand a 25% discount from list for merely walking through the showroom door.
Those things are being built by manufacturer's taking advantage of and using the old fashioned "team concept" by primarily Amish workers whose religious beliefs pre-empt their membership in any "union".
They give flexible hours to those workers to allow them to come in at 3:am and put so many units through a "station" before they go home to milk the cows and do the farm chores. Oftentimes whole family units are working on one team. Does this breed quality.... NOPE! Their motivation is to shove units through the checkpoint and then get their weekly top-up bonus that serves to give the team as a whole a living wage.
So far this segment of your economy has no off shore competition but......
China, Korea or Japan start building an rv trailer for your market and you will really watch the fur fly, plus you will line up to buy them for their assumed superior quality. Remember the cars of the sixties and seventies where door panels didn't even align with the fenders? Who or what changed that?
Your example above just doesn't hold water with me. Yes, all RV's have problems. But take your house, put it on top of your car, drive it down the road at 70 mph and see what happens. Just like every other product your talking about, there are different degree's of quality, different price points, and different manufacturing methods. RV's are a "you get what you pay for" product, and to think that China could build one that would rival ones made in the US is silly to put it mildly.
Your example above just doesn't hold water with me. Yes, all RV's have problems. But take your house, put it on top of your car, drive it down the road at 70 mph and see what happens. Just like every other product your talking about, there are different degree's of quality, different price points, and different manufacturing methods. RV's are a "you get what you pay for" product, and to think that China could build one that would rival ones made in the US is silly to put it mildly.
Not only can they, they will shortly.
In the 1990's Hyundai and Kia were disposable. They rival Japan today. China is next. The biggest barrier to the Chinese manufacturing RV's is transport costs to the states.
I could care less if it is made in America or China or Mexico or Germany or any other country.
Why do you want kids in China to starve to death?
As much as I loathe you, OhioRules, at least you stick to your principles. Conservative, corporation-worshipping, capitalism-at-any-cost posters who try to buy American are sabotaging their own convictions. And that's not to say I'm sorry I left my home state in 1980 and never looked back, judging by the extremist fascist views of a couple of Ohio posters on this forum.
At any rate, you other people crack me up when you say you buy American, but defend to the death the right of the corporations to destroy our economy by sending jobs overseas, reap massive profits and take over our government with all that money. Thanks for the chuckle!
The image above is from a store I was shopping at today named "American Apparel" and I couldn't help but to notice the price of the clothes weren't extremely high but they weren't H&M low either, for a simple pink button-down it was about $52. That got me thinking, do you all mind spending the extra dollar for something that's American made? I just purchased a pair of New Balance the other day and found they were made in America and plenty of people in the DC region wear them (I'm not sure if because of fashion, the brand, comfort, because there made in the USA, or what) so although they are a bit pricey, people will pay the price. Other companies should brand themselves as American companies a bit better and I bet their sells will go up and people, such as myself wouldn't mind paying a few extra bucks for it.
I feel a lot better paying $52 for a simple button-down as opposed to a sweatshop made Banana Republic sweater (although it's my favorite brand, its clothes aren't made in a regulated environment) that may cost $40. So how are you guys when it comes to paying for something American made? Will you pay a few extra dollars for it or are you one of those whom complain about America sending all jobs to China but don't want to pay the price that American goods command? I personally try not to support the Chinese government by buying Chinese made products.
And this isn't limited to clothes, if Apple decides to bring back its full manufacturing center of MacBooks, iPhones, etc. and the price they command is $100 more, I'll pay it to know its not made by someone who is being forced against their will to do it. I just don't promote the idea of sweatshops anymore; well I never did but I'm trying to buy more American these days although its hard to at times, not because of price but because it's simply not there to be purchased.
OK I'm not a rah rha American. I don't own a flag, I don't know all the words to the anthem.
BUT.. however I feel its important to buy American when you can.. and I do. Within reason of course.
So if 2 t-shirts one is $10 made in China and a $15 is American made, I'd buy the American one. If the American one were say $25, I'd have to think. I once bought a TV and I told the salesman find me one made in the USA.. and he did.. a Toshiba (!). I brought it home.
I am always willing to 'pay the price' for American goods.
Indeed, if one does not purchase American goods, a price is still being paid (loss of jobs at home, etc).
As a small side-note: when I used to travel extensively I enjoyed collecting coffee cups. However, my rule was (and is) to only purchase 'locally made' coffee cups. When traveling in America this is surprisingly hard to to. I had to look long and hard, for instance, while in Alaska to find a shop selling locally-made coffee cups. Most that you find are made in China. In other countries I also found it very difficult to find such cups (i.e., locally made).
The only place I did not have trouble finding locally made coffee cups was in China.
Final side-note: I used to smoke Camel cigarettes, made of the finest "Turkish" tobacco (so says the package). However, when I went to Istanbul and purchased a pack of Camels, the package said "Made of Choice Virginia Tobacco". The grass is always greener on the other side of the ocean.
Your example above just doesn't hold water with me. Yes, all RV's have problems. But take your house, put it on top of your car, drive it down the road at 70 mph and see what happens. Just like every other product your talking about, there are different degree's of quality, different price points, and different manufacturing methods. RV's are a "you get what you pay for" product, and to think that China could build one that would rival ones made in the US is silly to put it mildly.
As a previous owner for some years of higher end 5th wheels. I can attest to the fact that regardless of the price you pay ~ you still end up with poor quality control.
The industry has no oversight whatsoever and no off-shore competition.
Another thought for you. China is now capable of producing some very high quality products thanks to your market demanding it. Take Buicks for example, they are also built in China and are high quality cars that the Chinese obsess over.
It is just a matter of time before those carrier type of ships start arriving here with loads of RV's built to very exacting standards by new manufacturing methods like robots etc..
There has been no incentive for domestic manufactures to institute modern methods within their plants other than those that will result in a cheaper product.
Fuel costs alone are going to drive a consumer looking for something he can tow with a half ton.
Robots welding the frames and aluminum superstructure would eliminate the cold, surface splatter welds and weak fastenings prevelant today.
I do believe your husband (pipeline experience?) could look underneath any RV today and simply walk away shaking his head at the quality of the welding and material under there.
Chinese components such as axles, tires and some appliances are crap because that's what the domestic manufacture are content to purchase.
For an overseas entity to enter the market successfully however, I see them taking the lessons learned from the Hyundai Pony fiasco and bringing nothing but a high quality product loaded with amenities and letting it speak for itself to the American public.
I'd love to say that "Made in America" matters, but it doesn't. American Apparel may technically be made in America, but the truth is that you leave "America" once you walk into their manufacturing facilities. American Apparel is made in a "Mexican island" within Los Angeles... many the workers are they employ are working illegally in the U.S., and worse, paid like it. And even then, they are in incredible debt, and will likely be out of business soon.
I do buy "Made in America" clothing, particularly jeans, and they always cost upwards of $300. That's just the cost of running a cotton/denim mill within the U.S. by American labor, and then having those garments cut and sewn by Americans making a livable wage. Even Levi's that are still made in San Francisco cost $250+, and they have incredible purchasing power.
It's not possible to grow, pay cotton pickers, ship the cotton, spin the cotton to thread, weave those threads into fabric, design clothing patterns, cut fabric into those patterns, sew those patterns, ship the garments to stores, pay all of the associated wages/rents/upkeep/overhead, allow a typical 50% retail markup on those clothes, and then sell you a pair of jeans $30; it's just not possible in the U.S.
With the way that labor is paid in this country, even if the people working in American factories wanted to buy the clothing that they were producing, they wouldn't be able to afford it. It's a shame.
Pay the cotton pickers? This is what a cotton picker looks like in 2013:
You have a valid point, but I think you're greatly overestimating the costs to make clothing in the US.
According to this a pair of jeans costs about $1.67 in labor in China, which is about the average hourly wage for Chinese factory workers. Total cost of the jeans minus tariff according to this is $6.75. Add $13.25 to factor in the cost of American labor and make it an even $20.00. A 50% retail markup would equal $30. So I think that would be possible. They could at least sell them for $60-70 and make a profit. Charging $300 for a pair of jeans is pretty ridiculous even if your factory is right in the middle of Time Square.
But these aren't the types of jobs we should be looking to bring to the US. Who wants to work in a textile factory in the US? We should probably set our sights a little higher and leave the textiles to the developing countries.
The image above is from a store I was shopping at today named "American Apparel" and I couldn't help but to notice the price of the clothes weren't extremely high but they weren't H&M low either, for a simple pink button-down it was about $52. That got me thinking, do you all mind spending the extra dollar for something that's American made? I just purchased a pair of New Balance the other day and found they were made in America and plenty of people in the DC region wear them (I'm not sure if because of fashion, the brand, comfort, because there made in the USA, or what) so although they are a bit pricey, people will pay the price. Other companies should brand themselves as American companies a bit better and I bet their sells will go up and people, such as myself wouldn't mind paying a few extra bucks for it.
I feel a lot better paying $52 for a simple button-down as opposed to a sweatshop made Banana Republic sweater (although it's my favorite brand, its clothes aren't made in a regulated environment) that may cost $40. So how are you guys when it comes to paying for something American made? Will you pay a few extra dollars for it or are you one of those whom complain about America sending all jobs to China but don't want to pay the price that American goods command?
And this isn't limited to clothes, if Apple decides to bring back its full manufacturing center of MacBooks, iPhones, etc. and the price they command is $100 more, I'll pay it to know its not made by someone who is being forced against their will to do it. I just don't promote the idea of sweatshops anymore; well I never did but I'm trying to buy more American these days although its hard to at times, not because of price but because it's simply not there to be purchased.
To mods: please leave this in the political and controversies section as I'm asking the question to those whom are interested in politics, not fashion, electronics, etc.
If I pay more for something made in the USA I am subsidizing bad liberal policies so no I am not willing to pay more. You set taxes and make expensive regulations that drive the cost of goods up and then tell me it is my patriotic duty to support other Americans by buying them? No, sorry. Not falling for that. Take out the 50,000 pages of regulations on American business and then their stuff won't cost as much. I feel no responsibility to pay for Democrat over-regulation. Especially when they are also over-taxing me. It's not my fault the government is making American companies not competitive in the marketplace.
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