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Old 03-13-2013, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Texas
35,268 posts, read 19,297,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioRules View Post
I think everyone agrees to that.

The evolutionists claim that species have changed into other species. And there is no proof that has ever happened.
You mean to say that there's no evidence you'd accept. It's completely noncontroversial in science.

Quote:
It's just speculation. And since they have found millions of fossils from the time all this allegedly happened without any evidence of a species turning into another species I would say it's bs.

You're welcome to say that.

Nature will keep on evolving w/o your permission.

 
Old 03-13-2013, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
7,450 posts, read 5,817,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
That's just it..religion is NOT a replacement for science. The two are distinct and separate.

I recall in HS we did discuss the two in religion class and how to correlate them just using logic.
It was quite easy...one day in the Bible could have represented thousands of years. God created man but maybe not in his final form and that happened over thousands of years as well. Creation in the Bible is described in general terms and can be interpreted a number of ways.

That discussion in school tied our religious beliefs with that of science so there need not be a "choice" of what to believe.
I have no issue with that being discussed in a religious studies class, actually, and I think it's a good way to go about it. Critical thinking and observation as opposed to taking things at face value is always a good thing.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,515,954 times
Reputation: 27565
And many religions accept both views.


Today, many religious denominations accept that biological evolution has produced the diversity of living things over billions of years of Earth's history. Many have issued statements observing that evolution and the tenets of their faiths are compatible. Scientists and theologians have written eloquently about their awe and wonder at the history of the universe and of life on this planet, explaining that they see no conflict between their faith in God and the evidence for evolution. Religious denominations that do not accept the occurrence of evolution tend to be those that believe in strictly literal interpretations of religious texts.
—National Academy of Sciences, Science, Evolution, and Creationism

Creation
 
Old 03-13-2013, 10:23 AM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,428,467 times
Reputation: 2608
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinArmageddons View Post



Regarding evolution, yes.
So Speciation has been empirically established?

Note: Coorelation != Causation. I understand that the overwhelming evidence used to support the hypothesis, but has it been truly scientifically validated through actual testing?
 
Old 03-13-2013, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
7,450 posts, read 5,817,776 times
Reputation: 2170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
So Speciation has been empirically established?

Note: Coorelation != Causation. I understand that the overwhelming evidence used to support the hypothesis, but has it been truly scientifically validated through actual testing?
Are you asking if we've specifically observed speciation, or just seen the evidence of it through fossils?

I'd have to double check on the former, but I know we have a clear timeline of speciation through fossils.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,515,954 times
Reputation: 27565
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinArmageddons View Post
I have no issue with that being discussed in a religious studies class, actually, and I think it's a good way to go about it. Critical thinking and observation as opposed to taking things at face value is always a good thing.
Neither do I. In fact, that is the place where it should be discusses and correlated to your religion.
Not everyone is religious and not everyone belongs to the same religion but everyone learns science in school including evolution.

It's just that some are intent to get their personal beliefs (strict literal interpretation of the Bible) into mainstream education.

We've had our share of religious bigots in Texas education that tried to get their beliefs into public school.
And I have sent emails to my state government regarding that and how it's wrong to push one religious belief on an entire state population.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,515,954 times
Reputation: 27565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
So Speciation has been empirically established?

Note: Coorelation != Causation. I understand that the overwhelming evidence used to support the hypothesis, but has it been truly scientifically validated through actual testing?
A theory is in standing and held to be accepted until another one comes along to prove it wrong.
That is how science works.

The theory of evolution has held for a long time. Scientists have not proven otherwise.
So, knowing how science works, we believe it until it's been proven wrong.
Some aspects of science are not static. As technology advances so does science.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 10:34 AM
 
Location: NC
10,005 posts, read 9,020,659 times
Reputation: 3073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
So Speciation has been empirically established?

Note: Coorelation != Causation. I understand that the overwhelming evidence used to support the hypothesis, but has it been truly scientifically validated through actual testing?
Sort of.

if you take a strict view of Speciation that it requires the species not to be able to reproduce with its former species no, because it has only been observed in asexual organisms, but yes there is a controlled experiment where E-Coli bacteria evolved to do something that E-Coli as a species of bacteria is defined not to be able to do.

Recent Alumnus Stays at MSU to Study Speciation of E. coli | College of Natural Science at Michigan State College of Natural Science
 
Old 03-13-2013, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Volunteer State
1,243 posts, read 936,848 times
Reputation: 2159
For those debating the pro-creationists; listen up!

I need you to look to the left... no, your other left... See that wall, right there? Good. Now, I want you to try and move it five feet to your right, using only your mind - telekinesis. Just try it.

Now understand this: You are going to have an easier time of convincing that wall to move than you will have trying to convince the pro-creationists the value of evolutionary theory. You will have more success turning that wall invisible than you will getting these same people (that think they know science simply because they've had a high school biology course or have been told by others what to believe) to understand what speciation and evolution truly are.

They simply just do not know the science and the mechanisms. They think they know, but their own words prove otherwise to those with knowledge and experience. They simply voice that which I have heard parroted from others over the years - others, mind you, that have very little science background. I have been teaching it for 2 decades, and I've probably forgotten more science that they've ever learned (if I can be a little proud of myself for a moment). The simply do not know. They do not want to know, because it goes against their preconcieved beliefs. And trying to get someone - that actively and agressively chooses to ignore the literal tons of evidence supporting this theory - to change their mind is the equivalent of drawing a circle on that wall to your right, writing "bang head here" and proceeding to follow your own directions. All it gets you is a headache.

They simply choose not to see.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 10:59 AM
 
1,160 posts, read 1,202,817 times
Reputation: 929
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioRules View Post
The fossil record contains fossils of only complete and fully-formed species. There are no fossils of partially-evolved species to indicate that a gradual process of evolution ever occurred. Even among evolutionists there are diametrically different interpretations and reconstructions of the fossils used to support human evolution from a supposed ape-like ancestry.

Even if evolution takes millions and millions of years, we should still be able to see some stages of its process. But, we simply don't observe any partially-evolved fish, frogs, lizards, birds, dogs, cats among us. Every species of plant and animal is complete and fully-formed.

Another problem is how could partially-evolved plant and animal species survive over millions of years when their basic organs and tissues were still in the process of evolving? How, for example, were animals breathing, eating, and reproducing if there respiratory, digestive, and reproductive organs were still evolving?

The fact that animal and plant species are found fully formed and complete in the fossil record is powerful evidence (although not proof) for creation because it is evidence that they came into existence as fully formed and complete which is not possible by evolution. This is only possible with creation.
Correct, and well said. Thank you for your logical presentation.
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