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Old 03-13-2013, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 21,062,085 times
Reputation: 8620

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman71 View Post
For those debating the pro-creationists; listen up!

I need you to look to the left... no, your other left... See that wall, right there? Good. Now, I want you to try and move it five feet to your right, using only your mind - telekinesis. Just try it.

Now understand this: You are going to have an easier time of convincing that wall to move than you will have trying to convince the pro-creationists the value of evolutionary theory. You will have more success turning that wall invisible than you will getting these same people (that think they know science simply because they've had a high school biology course or have been told by others what to believe) to understand what speciation and evolution truly are.

They simply just do not know the science and the mechanisms. They think they know, but their own words prove otherwise to those with knowledge and experience. They simply voice that which I have heard parroted from others over the years - others, mind you, that have very little science background. I have been teaching it for 2 decades, and I've probably forgotten more science that they've ever learned (if I can be a little proud of myself for a moment). The simply do not know. They do not want to know, because it goes against their preconcieved beliefs. And trying to get someone - that actively and agressively chooses to ignore the literal tons of evidence supporting this theory - to change their mind is the equivalent of drawing a circle on that wall to your right, writing "bang head here" and proceeding to follow your own directions. All it gets you is a headache.

They simply choose not to see.

I understand what you're saying, but what happens when someone spouts off idiotic remarks, and no one stops to tell the group thats listening that the guy is an idiot? Someone will start to believe the idiot, now you have two.

 
Old 03-13-2013, 11:02 AM
 
Location: 9851 Meadowglen Lane, Apt 42, Houston Texas
3,178 posts, read 1,693,588 times
Reputation: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
We can test the big bang theory since there is still observable light from that time. Everything about the big bang theory except to its exact start has been essentially proven by observation and physics.
First of all, you can't really test the Big Bang Theory, just observe what's around you and see if that is according to the Big bang Theory. It's impossible to prove any scientific theory, that's just sloppy language but the Big Bang in particular has very little evidence in her name.

Even your first sentence belies an assumption that is not provable or testable and is just conjecture.

Redshifting is not much proof of anything. It's like you observing a bunch of people running out of a building and concluding an explosion happened or even something bad happened to cause all those people to run out.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Volunteer State
1,243 posts, read 936,706 times
Reputation: 2159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker5in1 View Post
Correct, and well said. Thank you for your logical presentation.
Actually, incorrect. It sounds good and logical, but it shows a complete misunderstnading of the fossil record. Sorry.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 11:06 AM
 
Location: NC
10,005 posts, read 9,019,635 times
Reputation: 3073
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombieApocExtraordinaire View Post
First of all, you can't really test the Big Bang Theory, just observe what's around you and see if that is according to the Big bang Theory. It's impossible to prove any scientific theory, that's just sloppy language but the Big Bang in particular has very little evidence in her name.

Even your first sentence belies an assumption that is not provable or testable and is just conjecture.

Redshifting is not much proof of anything. It's like you observing a bunch of people running out of a building and concluding an explosion happened or even something bad happened to cause all those people to run out.
If you don't like like it that is your problem not science's. Aside from that there is more then redshifting.

Frequently Asked Questions in Cosmology
 
Old 03-13-2013, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Volunteer State
1,243 posts, read 936,706 times
Reputation: 2159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
I understand what you're saying, but what happens when someone spouts off idiotic remarks, and no one stops to tell the group thats listening that the guy is an idiot? Someone will start to believe the idiot, now you have two.
True. You try to educate the ignorant masses, but what is the saying... "it's like trying to push a rope." Or that saying... the one about not being able to fix... something... can't remember... (dodging moderators )
 
Old 03-13-2013, 11:08 AM
 
Location: 9851 Meadowglen Lane, Apt 42, Houston Texas
3,178 posts, read 1,693,588 times
Reputation: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
If you don't like like it that is your problem not science's.

Frequently Asked Questions in Cosmology
No it's science's problem because scientists are looking for more evidence to support the Big Bang Theory. As it stands there is very little evidence for it.

But your response to my post was telling, you believe the Big Bang Theory, you didn't come to the Big Bang Theory through any sort of critical thinking. What makes your belief in the Big Bang Theory more intelligent than someone who believes in the Bible? Neither of you actually arrived to either through any independent thought.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 11:10 AM
 
26,670 posts, read 17,323,793 times
Reputation: 10470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker5in1 View Post
There is nothing wrong with teaching evolution as a theory, along with creation as a theory. Neither should be taught as proven fact, because both are unproveable.


The Theory of Evolution is a theory, but guess what? When scientists use the word theory, it has a different meaning to normal everyday use.1 That's right, it all comes down to the multiple meanings of the word theory. If you said to a scientist that you didn't believe in evolution because it was "just a theory", they'd probably be a bit puzzled.

In everyday use, theory means a guess or a hunch, something that maybe needs proof. In science, a theory is not a guess, not a hunch. It's a well-substantiated, well-supported, well-documented explanation for our observations.2 It ties together all the facts about something, providing an explanation that fits all the observations and can be used to make predictions. In science, theory is the ultimate goal, the explanation. It's as close to proven as anything in science can be.

Some people think that in science, you have a theory, and once it's proven, it becomes a law. That's not how it works. In science, we collect facts, or observations, we use laws to describe them, and a theory to explain them. You don't promote a theory to a law by proving it. A theory never becomes a law.


Evolution is Not Just a Theory: home


Creationism teaching belongs in religious schools and institutions...NOT in public schools. Period!

Last edited by CaseyB; 03-25-2013 at 03:25 PM.. Reason: rude
 
Old 03-13-2013, 11:12 AM
 
1,160 posts, read 1,202,450 times
Reputation: 929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman71 View Post
Actually, incorrect. It sounds good and logical, but it shows a complete misunderstnading of the fossil record. Sorry.
He's absolutely correct about the fossil record. There are NO fossils of transitional forms, None. Nada.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 11:12 AM
 
Location: NC
10,005 posts, read 9,019,635 times
Reputation: 3073
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombieApocExtraordinaire View Post
No it's science's problem because scientists are looking for more evidence to support the Big Bang Theory. As it stands there is very little evidence for it.

But your response to my post was telling, you believe the Big Bang Theory, you didn't come to the Big Bang Theory through any sort of critical thinking. What makes your belief in the Big Bang Theory more intelligent than someone who believes in the Bible? Neither of you actually arrived to either through any independent thought?
It is true that they are looking for more evidence as to the first 3 minutes. As I said that is not really know, but there is all sorts of evidence for it such as clues from supernovas, light, the presence of certain types of radition at certain levels. etc. Basically if we applied your desire for "evidence" to homicide cases we would almost never convict because even though we have the gun w/fingerprints, the bloody shirt, a lack of an alibi, a motive and a bunch of people fleeing the scene we don't have an eye witness or a confession so it there is not enough evidence.

As to how I came to the big bang theory, my father studied astrophysics at the University of North Carolina and spelled it out for me w/evidence. That is how I came to it.
 
Old 03-13-2013, 11:15 AM
 
1,160 posts, read 1,202,450 times
Reputation: 929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman71 View Post
True. You try to educate the ignorant masses, but what is the saying... "it's like trying to push a rope." Or that saying... the one about not being able to fix... something... can't remember... (dodging moderators )
Your condescension noted. You don't really know anything about who posts here though do you? You assume an inferior level of knowledge, intelligence, and education because they aren't in agreement with your perhaps errant understanding.
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