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Old 03-17-2013, 08:33 AM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,908 posts, read 9,550,789 times
Reputation: 3602

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
...and he used no public infrastructure to get his supplies to his home? The water that waters his greenery is supplied how?
Once again, who built the infrastructure? It wasn't the government, they actually build nothing. The taxes that they impose on the public was used to pay for it and the labor was provided by individuals, not the government. Typical that Obama would try to take credit for something that he has nothing to do with while he passes the blame on all of his errors, including having his minions lie about what he actually said.
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:38 AM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,908 posts, read 9,550,789 times
Reputation: 3602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willsson View Post
The govt entity that keeps your food safe to eat.
People have been eating food since before government deemed it safe. The government did NOT make food safe.

The govt entity that keeps your water safe to drink.
People have been drinking water since long before there was any government. The government did not make water safe.

The govt entity that keeps your car safe to drive.
People have been driving cars since before any government deemed them safe. And they still can kill.

The govt entity that makes sure your air is safe to breathe.
See water, above.

The govt entity that makes sure your employer can't lock you into your workplace.
You might better attribute that to unions.

The govt entity that insures your house won't fall down on your head.
Houses... historic. With or without government.

The govt entity that insures the electricity in your home won't kill you.
Communities would have developed safety standards without government interference.

The govt entity that insures that the medicine your doctor prescribes won't kill you.
Still doesn't work as well as intended. Of course, government also keeps industry from developing meds that might save a life.

The govt entity that insures your doctor is licensed to treat you.
More government interference.

The govt entity that insures your votes is counted and insures you won't be turned away because of the color of your skin.
Uhhhh, NO it doesn't.

On and On....
You got this one right.
So you like that the government frees you from all respondsibility in you life to make choices and decisions, right?

No wonder you support a nanny state.
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,605 posts, read 4,842,742 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
What the Democrat Party (Progressive Party) has become is clearly manifested in that now infamous phrase, "You didn't build that!" Barack Obama, Elizabeth Warren, and no doubt many others within the Party, staunchly believe in this destructive philosophy (collectivism), a cancer, which slowly progresses toward the ultimate destruction of individualism, and liberty, on which they depend for the largesse that finances their Utopian dream.



The writer of the above article perfectly articulates the nature of the enemy. How many times in human history must we repeat that which does not work?
"the people's realization that our overlords have lost touch with the Founders' vision"

You think he was referring to the founders' vision, when they wrote: "we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:46 AM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,908 posts, read 9,550,789 times
Reputation: 3602
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
Here's the gap in your logic (and it's big enough to drive a semi through it)--the GOVERNMENT is US. We pool our resources through taxes to do the things we can't do alone, and we elect people to govern. It's not a separate entity.
Wrong. The government was created to represent us, it is not us. We do not pool our resources through taxes, the government uses intimidation to take our resources for their own use (support foreign governments, pay off those that supported their campaigns and bribe companies to do things for them).

This government, in particular, has attempted to become our nanny and has continued to lie to us about what they are doing.

Example: they say with sequestration they have to cut military and border patrol, White House tours while they continue to incrrease foreign "aid" to countries who don't even like us.

Is that truly what you wanted when you voted?
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:57 AM
 
20,706 posts, read 19,349,208 times
Reputation: 8278
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Which came first? The innovator. The entrepreneur, with the idea. Without him (or her), you "workers" (as you like to call yourselves) wouldn't have a job.
Fallacy of complex cause. Can't have a business without workers. and most entrepreneurs were workers.



Quote:
In the begining, a business is often a one man operation. The entrepreneur is chief engineer, production manager, machine operator, technician, draftsman, saleman, sales department head, shipping department head, and invoicing and accounting department.
Correct which is why the innovation typically begins from a worker. They often see a better way.

Quote:
I have known such people personally, having worked for these small businesses.

Your job, as a hired "worker" (as you prefer to call yourself - I call you an "employee"), is to assemble a product, or perform whatever task you were hired to do, according to instructions given you. You are hired at an agreed upon wage (or salary) to do that job. Beyond that, you have no claim on the profits of the business (the fruits of the labor and intellectual property of the entrepreneur, which belong to him alone, or his partners, should he aquire any). If you don't like this arrangement, you are free to leave and find other employment, or start your own business.
Labor also includes people like scientists and engineers. Your example of labor is all mindless piece work.

Quote:
A labor union demands a "worker" be paid according to what it deems fair, which may or may not be commensurate with the value placed on that job by the owner(s) of the company. This is the "tail wagging the dog." It results in a business having to charge higher prices for it's product than it would otherwise like to do, and placing the business at a disadvantage with competitors (for example, foreign competitors) or businesses who are non-union. This arrangement does nothing to increase the value or quality of the product.
As does any monopoly on any product. In a slack labor market, do you think the fundamental work changes in a tight labor market? No just the negotiation changes.



Quote:
However, to get back to your original premise, there have been many people who have become rich who do not hire "workers." They are the investors, who (like yourself) have made their living working for someone else. They have saved their money, and invested these savings (what they have left after providing for their day to day living expenses), in other businesses (thy buy stock, etc.).
Depends on what we call investment. Some returns are very much like those labor unions you speak of with monopoly pricing profits.


Quote:
This is what my father did, and he was able to retire at a very young age as a result (his early fifties). Investors like my father help businesses grow, since the sale of stock is one way a company raises capital for expansion.
An entrepreneur is not an innovator. If they were then we would not define them as risk takers. That is what an entrepreneur is. The best entrepreneur is usually someone who knew the business working in it, are willing to take calculated risks, and know their own weaknesses. There are very creative people who don't have these qualities. However there are also some very bad entrepreneurs and often live by some sort of monopoly.

We need entrepreneurs for sure , but they are not the main source of innovation. Most of the innovators I know would make terrible entrepreneurs. Many are too shy, don't work well with people or are starved for capital. Heck having a large extended family often makes a good entrepreneurs. That is why immigrants can often run a small business easier than Americans. They have a ready and trust worthy labor pool.

I was an entrepreneur myself.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:00 AM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,908 posts, read 9,550,789 times
Reputation: 3602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
But you must ask yourself, 'where did the wealthy capitalist get his money from in the first place'?

did he actually create it all himself?

No, of course not!
See Henry Ford and Bill Gates.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:22 AM
 
20,706 posts, read 19,349,208 times
Reputation: 8278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
See Henry Ford and Bill Gates.
Please don't mention Gates with Ford. Gate's innovation was taking public domain software and adding fixes to it like everyone else. The only difference was he put a patent on his changes. He came form a law family and just knew how to slap ownership claims on everything. The fist decent software his company produced was Windows 2000. He beat Apple because his Apple rip offs went on cheap commodity hardware based upon the open specification. That is why Compaq created a legal clone of the IBM machine.

Gates is an example of everything that can go wrong with this system.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,442,711 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Please don't mention Gates with Ford. Gate's innovation was taking public domain software and adding fixes to it like everyone else. The only difference was he put a patent on his changes. He came form a law family and just knew how to slap ownership claims on everything. The fist decent software his company produced was Windows 2000. He beat Apple because his Apple rip offs went on cheap commodity hardware based upon the open specification. That is why Compaq created a legal clone of the IBM machine.

Gates is an example of everything that can go wrong with this system.
Gates purchased Q-DOS for $50K in the early 80's and then 86-DOS for $25K.
It was NOT public domain software.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:37 AM
 
20,706 posts, read 19,349,208 times
Reputation: 8278
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Gates purchased Q-DOS for $50K in the early 80's and then 86-DOS for $25K.
It was NOT public domain software.

I am talking about when he hacked BASIC well before then.

Would you care to change your reply?

History of the BASIC family of languages

Microsoft's first product was BASIC.
1977 – Hobbyists have figured out how to put slightly more memory on the Altair, so new versions of BASIC are needed to suck up the memory. One of them is the first product from a new company called Microsoft, which begins its tradition of copying ideas from other products and then selling a version that requires more memory.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,442,711 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
I am talking about when he hacked BASIC well before then.

Would you care to change your reply?

History of the BASIC family of languages

Microsoft's first product was BASIC.
1977 – Hobbyists have figured out how to put slightly more memory on the Altair, so new versions of BASIC are needed to suck up the memory. One of them is the first product from a new company called Microsoft, which begins its tradition of copying ideas from other products and then selling a version that requires more memory.
Your post was about operating systems, not software compilers.
Win2K was not MS's first OS, MS-DOS was and was their bread and butter for years.

I have no intentions of changing my reply. An operating system is NOT the same as software applications.

MS, Apple, IBM..all had their proprietary software.
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